Scorpio / Sierra plenum and throttle body parts / questions

Scorpio / Scorpio Cosworth Discussions - Questions, problem resolution, general talk, technical tips and modifications.
PetroleumJunkie412
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Scorpio / Sierra plenum and throttle body parts / questions

Post by PetroleumJunkie412 » Mon May 27, 2019 8:35 am

Hey all, thanks to a deal on parts made with a forum member over at The Ranger Station, I have a Sierra / Scorpio dual throttle body intake ready to be put on my 1988 Ranger.

I received the setup as a bare throttle body and pleInum, and have so far tracked down intake bolts, gasket washers for the bolts, a throttle position sensor and pigtail, and some other odds and ends.

Side by side photos of the ranger and Scorpio intakes and throttle bodies:
https://www.therangerstation.com/forums ... os.181010/

The last two problems to solve are a block off plate (or "something") for the odd hole at the bottom of the throttle bodies, and a throttle cable mount for the intake.

The Ranger throttle cable mount plate doesn't quite work for the Scorpio intake. I have not been able to source the correct one, either.

Also, in the photos, there is an odd flanged adapter at the bottom of the throttle bodies. I am not sure what it is for. Any insight? My best guess was egr (which my truck does not have) and I am unable to find anything that details what should be bolted there.

Oh, and if you do read the thread, I still do have the Sierra performance ECU if anyone is interested to see if they can make it work. There's no way for me to get it to stop trying to shift a transmission that isn't there, and I've already gone the way of Megasquirt for an ECU.

Thanks all!

brokencase
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Re: Scorpio / Sierra plenum and throttle body parts / questions

Post by brokencase » Tue May 28, 2019 8:15 pm

I don't know what you are expecting to get out of this. There is little advantage to be gained.

I guess first and foremost is that the Ranger is mass air flow and the Scorpio is speed density. So somehow you have to
run through your stock single port mass airflow sensor and then split into the dual intake. It is a reasonable compromise for Scorpio owners wanting to convert to a mass air flow system (and it has been done!), But I think Ranger owners are best to stick with their stock intake manifold setup.

FWIW - Later Euro Scorpios did have mass air flow with "dual" mass air flow sensors. Never made it over here.

The difference between Scorpio vs. Ranger is the camshaft. The Scorpio has a longer duration so it pulls a little more into the higher rpms.
But we are not talking much here...I posted the cam timings Scorpio vs. Ranger on this forum a while back.

I'm not dissing you, your conversion is "different and unique" but there are better places to spend money to get better performance.

Like the following (in order of difficulty)...

1) The easy stuff..K&N air filter, 185F thermostat. CAI, Advance the timing. Kuntz stuff...

2) Skim the heads to raise the compression to ~9.8 mild port and polish, three angle valve job, new cam, and install aftermarket JBA headers.

3) Drop in a 4.0L OHV from 90-98. Harder to do on a Scorpio. Easier on a Ranger.

4) My favorite... Drop the 4.0L crank into the 2.9L block. Use Clevite MAHLE Piston 2002-2012 Chrysler V6 3.7L SOHC with 3.66" Bore.
This gets you to 3.434L with a 9.6 compression ratio. Have to grind crank and block. Drop in the Ford 5.0L injectors.
There was a $25 Scorpio engine on Cragslist in PA a while back that I kick myself for not buying to do this experiment.
Despite the nay-sayers I think even the speed density would work in this case so long as the injector sizing was increased.

5) Radical - Anything is possible... 5.0L with a t-5. Coyote motor anyone?

Delighted by your Cologne V6 enthusiasm...just trying to share my wisdom and discoveries.

So states the son of ECCIV Chief...best of luck.

PetroleumJunkie412
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Re: Scorpio / Sierra plenum and throttle body parts / questions

Post by PetroleumJunkie412 » Wed May 29, 2019 8:04 am

brokencase wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 8:15 pm
I don't know what you are expecting to get out of this. There is little advantage to be gained.

I guess first and foremost is that the Ranger is mass air flow and the Scorpio is speed density. So somehow you have to
run through your stock single port mass airflow sensor and then split into the dual intake. It is a reasonable compromise for Scorpio owners wanting to convert to a mass air flow system (and it has been done!), But I think Ranger owners are best to stick with their stock intake manifold setup.

FWIW - Later Euro Scorpios did have mass air flow with "dual" mass air flow sensors. Never made it over here.

The difference between Scorpio vs. Ranger is the camshaft. The Scorpio has a longer duration so it pulls a little more into the higher rpms.
But we are not talking much here...I posted the cam timings Scorpio vs. Ranger on this forum a while back.

I'm not dissing you, your conversion is "different and unique" but there are better places to spend money to get better performance.

Like the following (in order of difficulty)...

1) The easy stuff..K&N air filter, 185F thermostat. CAI, Advance the timing. Kuntz stuff...

2) Skim the heads to raise the compression to ~9.8 mild port and polish, three angle valve job, new cam, and install aftermarket JBA headers.

3) Drop in a 4.0L OHV from 90-98. Harder to do on a Scorpio. Easier on a Ranger.

4) My favorite... Drop the 4.0L crank into the 2.9L block. Use Clevite MAHLE Piston 2002-2012 Chrysler V6 3.7L SOHC with 3.66" Bore.
This gets you to 3.434L with a 9.6 compression ratio. Have to grind crank and block. Drop in the Ford 5.0L injectors.
There was a $25 Scorpio engine on Cragslist in PA a while back that I kick myself for not buying to do this experiment.
Despite the nay-sayers I think even the speed density would work in this case so long as the injector sizing was increased.

5) Radical - Anything is possible... 5.0L with a t-5. Coyote motor anyone?

Delighted by your Cologne V6 enthusiasm...just trying to share my wisdom and discoveries.

So states the son of ECCIV Chief...best of luck.
Appreciate the reply! I'll start with my (long) list of mods from my build page on the Ranger Station forums:

Electrical:
140 amp 3G alternator from a windstar - Generic chevy 350 alternator bracket
150 Amp Megafuse and Bussman holder
under hood power distribution center - Amazon ($15)
TFI relocation with heatsink and fan
16" Electric puller fan
Dual Mercedes Benz C230 Kompressor pusher fans
Volvo S40 Power steering pump (in progress...)
Nilight flood lights
Partsam LED headlights
Really bright (3000 lumen) LED reverse lights
All other lights (except instrument panel) replaced with LED
DUAL $20 Walmart head unit for stereo. Blapunkt 6x9 speakers in rear, 4" in front
Cyberdyne AFR guage

Cab:
Noico butyl sound deadener (entire cab)
Noico foam sound insulation (flat areas)
Power seats from 1992 Ranger
Center console
Rear seat delete - Rear seat storage boxes from 1986 Ranger
Rear seat area tonneau cover from 1986 Ranger
Prothane Cab Bushings
Stock Interiors grey carpet
Black interior - Combination of DupliColor trim and Bumper paint and Plasti-dip


Engine - My really dumb unorthodox 2.9l forced induction build:
DIYAutotune Megasquirt PNP v1.5
Spartan Wideband Controller and Bosch 4.9 LSU Wideband O2 sensor
Phenolic upper intake spacers
J & C Enterprises Performance Heads
Ported lower intake
Ported Upper intake
1986 Throttle Body
Free floating Rockers
Polished rocker assemblies
Melling (I think...) lifters
JBA Headers
2.5" exhaust with Flowmaster FlowFX
PCV catch can
Stupid cone air filter
Bosch iridium plugs
"Performance" Cap, rotor, and wires
MSD Blaster Coil

In progress (have on hand, just waiting for time to install):
24lb Bosch 4 hole injectors from a Saleen Mustang
Sierra/Scorpio Dual TB intake
Eaton M62 Supercharger from a Mercedes Benz C230 Kompressor

Transmission:
Swapped out the FM146 and BW 1350 for a M5OD and BW 1354
Rebuilt manual hubs on Dana 28
Stock 3.73 Ratios
Heavy duty clutch

Body/Frame/Suspension:
Moog variable rate HD front springs
Husky 1750lb 5 leaf rear springs
UHaul hitch
Under frame spare tire carrier
Smittybilt front and rear pipe bumpers
Nilight front flood lights
Rear bumper extension with step
Dual front sway bars
Rear sway bar from a Bronco II
Transmission skid plate
Heavy duty fuel tank skid plate
Front tow bar (so I can be towed out of a ditch)
Entire frame stripped and painted/coated in Corroseal


So, my truck started life as a 1988 speed density, and is now on a Megasquirt PNP speed density setup. If you ever get the chance, the Microsquirt ECM designed for 5.0 Mustangs of the same era is as close to perfect bolt on for a 2.9 as you can get. The whole setup for a 2.9 with a hassle free engine harness (direct plug in) is available from EFI Source in Pennsylvania for $475. I cannot overstate how powerful they are. Instant upgrade, and will utilize any injectors or cam you'd ever want to run.

The advantage I'd gain from the Sierra/Scorpio intake is that it turns left, where the Ranger intake turns right. This would allow for much easier plumbing into the intercooler that's currently hanging under the radiator. Also the lower deck height of the Sierra/Scorpio plenum allows for me to plumb my air intake into a cowl induction or bugcatcher style intake. Not worried about the torque curve moving due to intake runner lengths changing; boost should compensate for this.

The center of the build is the M62 Supercharger out of the Mercedes. It's as close as you can get to a bolt-on for a 2.9. Even the crank pulley lines up nearly bolt-for-bolt.

Supercharger build thread and truck build thread over at the Ranger Station:

https://www.therangerstation.com/forums ... se.179111/

https://www.therangerstation.com/forums ... ea.179649/

Never heard of the piston/crank idea. I have a spare 2.9 laying around that I've been thinking about experimenting with. That's an AWESOME idea.

Also, you're in PA? Cool! I'm over in Pittsburgh.

Ed Lijewski
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Re: Scorpio / Sierra plenum and throttle body parts / questions

Post by Ed Lijewski » Wed May 29, 2019 12:30 pm

Paul West (on here) has this available until next week. Make him a low ball offer before it hits the dumpster.
Screenshot_20190529-122616_Facebook-432x888.jpg
Screenshot_20190529-122616_Facebook-432x888.jpg (125.84 KiB) Viewed 1272 times
Descartes: "Cogito Ergo Sum"
Lijewski: "Sum Ergo Drive-O. Mucho!

PetroleumJunkie412
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Re: Scorpio / Sierra plenum and throttle body parts / questions

Post by PetroleumJunkie412 » Wed May 29, 2019 3:05 pm

Ed Lijewski wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 12:30 pm
Paul West (on here) has this available until next week. Make him a low ball offer before it hits the dumpster.

Screenshot_20190529-122616_Facebook-432x888.jpg
Ah, thats a shame its just a short block - I have a spare 1990 Ranger one that is in need of heads (go figure), and my current intake that needs whatever plate goes under the throttle body and a throttle cable holder.

PetroleumJunkie412
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Re: Scorpio / Sierra plenum and throttle body parts / questions

Post by PetroleumJunkie412 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:29 am

Can anyone out there at least take a photo of the two areas? I cannot find one, and I really don't want to buy an entire parts car for a bracket and plate...

With a photo I can fabricate them.

taylor0987
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Re: Scorpio / Sierra plenum and throttle body parts / questions

Post by taylor0987 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:04 pm

I've got a throttle cable bracket available. It's not great cosmetically but it's functionally fine. I took it off to replace with a clean one.

my8950
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Re: Scorpio / Sierra plenum and throttle body parts / questions

Post by my8950 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:30 pm

Complete engine available in S/E Michigan...

Ed Lijewski
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Re: Scorpio / Sierra plenum and throttle body parts / questions

Post by Ed Lijewski » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:45 pm

The opening (hole) on the underside of the left (main) TB bore in your photo is for the EGR tube. You'd need to make a block-off plate if you don't run the Scorpio EGR.

YMMV
Descartes: "Cogito Ergo Sum"
Lijewski: "Sum Ergo Drive-O. Mucho!

PetroleumJunkie412
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Re: Scorpio / Sierra plenum and throttle body parts / questions

Post by PetroleumJunkie412 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:31 pm

my8950 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:30 pm
Complete engine available in S/E Michigan...
May be interested. Which casting is it, and how are the heads?

PetroleumJunkie412
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Re: Scorpio / Sierra plenum and throttle body parts / questions

Post by PetroleumJunkie412 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:33 pm

Ed Lijewski wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:45 pm
The opening (hole) on the underside of the left (main) TB bore in your photo is for the EGR tube. You'd need to make a block-off plate if you don't run the Scorpio EGR.

YMMV
Awesome, figured it was EGR. Should be easy to block off or turn into a vac port. Running Megasquirt, so no EGR (88 ranger 2.9 also did not have EGR)

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Re: Scorpio / Sierra plenum and throttle body parts / questions

Post by my8950 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:21 am

PetroleumJunkie412 wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:31 pm
my8950 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:30 pm
Complete engine available in S/E Michigan...
May be interested. Which casting is it, and how are the heads?
Where is the casting ID? I can find out and let you know.
heads are attached to the block, its all in the car.
89 Scorpio

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Re: Scorpio / Sierra plenum and throttle body parts / questions

Post by PetroleumJunkie412 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:32 am

Should be near the front of the block around the timing cover.

Curious if the high compression block ever made it into the USA. Nor sure if it did, but I know very little about Merkur.

Reference:
http://www.ford-ig-wriedel.de/technik/v6_motoren_s2.htm

Heads have the casting number on the side. 86tm are the unstable ones, 89tm are improved, and World Products are the bulletproof ones.

my8950
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Re: Scorpio / Sierra plenum and throttle body parts / questions

Post by my8950 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:34 am

PetroleumJunkie412 wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:32 am
Should be near the front of the block around the timing cover.

Curious if the high compression block ever made it into the USA. Nor sure if it did, but I know very little about Merkur.

Reference:
http://www.ford-ig-wriedel.de/technik/v6_motoren_s2.htm

Heads have the casting number on the side. 86tm are the unstable ones, 89tm are improved, and World Products are the bulletproof ones.
Interesting website.
I will check the engine this weekend and let you know what I find.

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Re: Scorpio / Sierra plenum and throttle body parts / questions

Post by Bob Weir » Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:08 pm

For parts contact:
Jeff Herson (847) 688-1234 or blugg@msn.com or http://merkurmidwest.com [North Chicago IL]

Jan Talian (757) 535-5581 or talian@hotmail.com [Suffolk VA]

Mike Oyler (330) 687-6498 or merkurdriver@gmail.com or http://merkurdepot.com [Barberton OH]

or do a WTB post in the Scorpio classifieds and our Facebook

Photo attached of linkage mounter to upper intake. Sorry, I don't have pic of dirty one that would be easier to see.
Scorpio engine 5.jpg
Scorpio engine 5.jpg (68.73 KiB) Viewed 1065 times

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