Will the real Scorpio Cam specs please stand up?

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brokencase
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Will the real Scorpio Cam specs please stand up?

Post by brokencase » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:15 pm

I did a little digging around and I had found the following camshaft information.

The first I had found in a service page from the UK Scorpio website.
I believe this to be the same spec for the US Scorpio 2.9L because the HP and torque seemed to match
that of the US car. The other is the 2.9L for the US Ranger/Bronco.

What is to be learned from this? If you get a rebuilt 2.9L it will most likely have the Ranger Cam.
Torque HP peaks will be much lower in rpm than the original Scorpio engine and it will probably not run optimally
with the Scorpio EECIV.

Secondly, the stock Scorpio cam is better (duration wise) than the majority of the aftermarket cams for the 2.9L.
There are aftermarket cams with higher lift.

If anyone has any better information or if you see any errors in my data please post.

Scorpio (Euro?) Spec
145hp @ 5500rpm and 162ftlbs @3000rpm
Intake open 30 BTDC
Intake close 66 ABDC
Exhaust open 76 BBDC
Exhaust close 20 ATDC

Duration Intake 276
Duration Exhaust 276

1.47 Rocker Ratio
.375 lift intake
.375 lift exhaust

Lobe seperation 113
Intake Center Line 108
Exhaust Center Line 118

US Ranger/Bronco Spec
140 hp (104 kW) @4600 rpm and 170ftlbs @2600rpm
Intake open 25 BTDC
Intake close 51 ABDC
Exhaust open 74 BBDC
Exhaust close 20 ATDC

Duration Intake 256
Duration Exhaust 274

1.47 Rocker Ratio
.359 lift intake
.371 lift exhaust

Lobe seperation 110
Intake Center Line 103
Exhaust Center Line 117

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Re: Will the real Scorpio Cam specs please stand up?

Post by asifahmed » Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:16 pm

I dont know much about camshaft specs but it seems cam grinders want to know at what lift all these numbers correspond?
Is 0.050" industry standard??
So do we assume these Scorpio cam specs are at 0.050"??

Thanks
Steve

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Re: Will the real Scorpio Cam specs please stand up?

Post by brokencase » Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:58 pm

I believe they are. However, the important point here is to indicate that the the Scorpio cam is different than that in the Ranger.

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Re: Will the real Scorpio Cam specs please stand up?

Post by asifahmed » Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:12 am

Thanks Brokencase.

Why are they (Scorpio 2.9 cams) so hard to find new? None on EBay.co.uk or de

Steve

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Re: Will the real Scorpio Cam specs please stand up?

Post by john keefe » Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:09 am

Ford has spec'd its cams at @ 0.050" lift for almost forever, and I imagine it's still true with the newer mod motors. They did it with all the 2.3L's and V8's. Used to be some manufacturers used 0.020", 0.040", as did some aftermarket custom grinders. You'd have to look really closely at the details of the specs when trying to compare cams from different companies, and then good luck trying to extrapolate what specs @ 0.020" lift equates to vs. spec's from your 0.050" cam.

You'd think valve seat-to-seat measures would be the most accurate ("advertised duration"), but that doesn't account for lash differences between motors, hydraulic lifter-rebound, and depending on the cam profile, it can be subjective as to when the rise in the cam lobe is actually moving the valve/lifter/follower/bucket. And, you had some shady custom grinders (and companies) making big claims about cam performance and lift vs. their competition without disclosing their start and end points, or at best in some teeny-tiny footnote at the back of a catalog. Eventually, as aftermarket buyers (and race shops) started avoiding the cam grinders with questionable claims, 0.050" became the standard because by then you've eliminated all the variables of lash, hydraulic lifter rebound, etc., the valve can be seen to have actually come off its seat and flowed, and everyone is comparing apples-to-apples.

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Re: Will the real Scorpio Cam specs please stand up?

Post by brokencase » Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:24 pm

asifahmed wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:12 am
Thanks Brokencase.

Why are they (Scorpio 2.9 cams) so hard to find new? None on EBay.co.uk or de

Steve
I think your best bet is to find a cam grinder who can grind to spec OR search for an aftermarket 2.9 Ranger cam with the longest duration you can find. Perhaps Camcraft H39-0606? https://www.camcraftcams.com/catalogs-l ... er-bronco/

Now that I look at the Camcraft specs I am pretty sure the Scorpio's stock duration is "adv. duration" and not .050 duration. No way it is 276 duration at 0.050

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Re: Will the real Scorpio Cam specs please stand up?

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:51 am

I've sometimes wondered what made of the difference in output between the Ranger and Scorpio 2.9; thanks for finally answering that question! I wonder how much of a difference the Scorpio dual TB and shorter intake runners makes vs. the Ranger intake?
Brad

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Re: Will the real Scorpio Cam specs please stand up?

Post by asifahmed » Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:18 am

Here's an email from Kent Cams
Kent Cams Info <info@kentcams.com>
Wed, Oct 7, 2:58 AM (2 days ago)
to me

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your e-mail.

We offer a OE replacement camshaft for the 2.9 V6 engine:

https://www.kentcams.com/part/V6T35

below is from the site
V6T35
Part No. V6T35
Manufacturer Ford
Engine 2.9
Description OEM Blueprinted mechanical cam
Power Band 1500 - 6000
Specifications
Cam Lift (mm) 6.7mm
Duration 276 Deg. In / 278 Deg. Ex
Duration at 1mm 227 Deg.
Full Lift 114 Deg.
LTDC N/A
Timing 24/72 73/25
Valve Lift (mm) 9.5mm In / 9.45mm Ex
VC (mm) 0.35mm In / 0.4mm Ex

This camshaft uses solid tappets not the hydraulic type and is priced at 229.10 GBP + shipping.

Regards,

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Re: Will the real Scorpio Cam specs please stand up?

Post by john keefe » Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:32 pm

Just FYI... That cam is listed at 1mm lift, or 0.03937". It would take another 0.27mm to reach 0.050" (or, 0.01063"), so actual duration @ 0.050" lift would be a tad less. Maybe 1.75-2.0 Deg., so an estimate of 275 Deg @ 0.050" ???

Still waiting for the caffeine to kick in, so I'm not recognizing enough to get arc length, and be anymore accurate than that. But, close enough for government work. :D

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Re: Will the real Scorpio Cam specs please stand up?

Post by brokencase » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:30 pm

That Kent cam seems like a proper replacement. Off course it is from the UK so depending on where you are at the shipping could be expensive.

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Re: Will the real Scorpio Cam specs please stand up?

Post by asifahmed » Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:31 am

I'll email Kent to see if you can use hydraulic lifters with it?
How often does one have to adjust valves with solid lifters? I guess not often if the car will see little km/miles per year.


Steve

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Re: Will the real Scorpio Cam specs please stand up?

Post by andyofcolumbusmerkur » Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:28 pm

I'm confused by the (what it appears to me) as insane duration numbers and that it is listed as mechanical which I take as meaning not hydraulic. I was thinking it is for some 70's european car that this company is selling as ford nos? I would guess a manufacturer would make a truck cam and a car cam. Maybe a euro one or sport version, but no more that 2 or 3 different ones.
"Let me go get the keys to your brand new Hyundai!" Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

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Re: Will the real Scorpio Cam specs please stand up?

Post by brokencase » Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:06 am

andyofcolumbusmerkur wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:28 pm
I'm confused by the (what it appears to me) as insane duration numbers and that it is listed as mechanical which I take as meaning not hydraulic.
I am also confused a little..so I did a little reading.
European Autocar magazine had an article in Dec 86 regarding the new 2.9L and it stated the following:

"Understandably, the US model and, because it also doesn't rev so highly, the 145PS 91-octane lead-free alternative 2.9 for the German market, are both fitted with hydraulic tappets. Ford is not yet totally confident to use them in the normal 2.9 Scorpio engine, which has a rev-limiter maximum speed of 6300rpm."

I guess that this would imply that early 2.9 engines had solid lifters?

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Re: Will the real Scorpio Cam specs please stand up?

Post by brokencase » Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:53 pm

It seems that the Kent V6T35 "Blue Printed Mechanical Cam" does match well to the figures I originally posted for the Scorpio for lift and duration.

I am just wondering if it is the case that they eventually just switched to hydraulic lifters OR did the hydraulic lifter engines have a different cam?
Can't believe that would have been the same as the Ranger. But the data for the "Euro" Scorpio cam also had hp and torque specs that match those as advertised for US, i.e, rpm for peak hp, and rpm peak for torque.

Just an FYI, Kent also offers two more aggressive cams for the Scorpio - V6T45, V6T46
The VT45 keeps the duration but bumps the lift a little. Raises the bottom powerband by 500rpm.
V6T46 looks to be a race cam and you probably would not want to run it with an automatic transmission.

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