Making the Cologne 2.9 Distributor-less using 4L OHV parts

[brokencase]

I just thought of something else I might have missed Brad. "Signature PIP".

I believe on the Scorpio the PIP out of the distributor has one of the PIP pulses a different length to indicate cylinder one TDC to the EECIV.

The EDIS does not do this because it is a "wasted spark" system. So we might have to artificially alter every 6th PIP pulse from the EDIS in order to keep the Scorpio EECIV happy.

[brokencase]

Correct, the one shown is just a "dummy plug" to drive the oil pump. The later vehicles with SEFI (mostly EEC5) got a cam sensor there. Either one would work to just drive the oil pump, as would the original distributor. The ones from the 4L require some sort of machining which I haven't quite figured out yet.

So we need one of those to drive the oil pump, I totally overlooked that. So if the 4.0L one needs mod what is the one you have there from?

[brokencase]

BTW, lots of useful tech docs here...
http://eectuning.org/forums/viewforum.p ... d965a1953c

Some more detailed info about the EECIV
http://eectuning.org/forums/viewtopic.p ... d965a1953c

[brokencase]

Here is an interesting and somewhat related project.
https://hacksandbodges.wordpress.com/20 ... n/#respond

[DPDISXR4Ti]

So we need one of those to drive the oil pump, I totally overlooked that. So if the 4.0L one needs mod what is the one you have there from?

From a 4.0! It fits, but doesn't seat all the way in - it needs to go down about another 3/8" or so. The easy route would be to get one from a Cosworth 2.9. That ran EDIS and was still a 2.9. But people have made the 4.0 one work - I just need to figure out what exactly needs to be re-worked. Any way, this won't be an obstacle. Worse case, as a temporary solution I can throw a 2.9 distributor in there and it can do nothing but drive the oil pump.

[DPDISXR4Ti]

I just thought of something else I might have missed Brad. "Signature PIP".

I believe on the Scorpio the PIP out of the distributor has one of the PIP pulses a different length to indicate cylinder one TDC to the EECIV.

The EDIS does not do this because it is a "wasted spark" system. So we might have to artificially alter every 6th PIP pulse from the EDIS in order to keep the Scorpio EECIV happy.

You're beyond my pay grade with this stuff. I understand how it works, but building something from scratch to utilize these signals is beyond my skill-set. If you can do it, I think there's a market for it. There's still plenty of Ford vehicles running around with distributors. Every week on the Ford truck forums someone new is experiencing a TFI, PIP, or coil failure.

[Bob Weir]

Worldwide - do any Ford 2.9 v6 use a distributorless ignition?

[brokencase]

The Cosworth Scorpios in Europe did come with with EDIS.

Brad I think what I'll do is throw something together and add code to data log. I'll hook it up to my Scorpio's PIP and SPOUT and see if I can generate reasonable SAW output for the EDIS. I'd also like to see what the advance behavior looks like on the Scorpio. I'll be able to watch that on the terminal as I drive around. So in this respect it is an interesting diagnostic tool.

I'll post the circuit and code here if somebody wants to take it further.

As for myself converting, That would be some time away. Its a big project to remove the front pulley and work out the mounting for the gear and sensor. Not to mention going to the junkyard to pickup the assorted bits. I hope to pursue this in the future, but I can't go that deep into it right now.

But writing code for a small micro and wiring it all up is an afternoon project.

[brokencase]

Just thinking about the "more precise firing" advantages of EDIS...

Naturally the accumulated backlash of the timing chain, the gear drive to the distributor, all contribute to poor accuracy of the ignition event on a distributor engine. But I wonder how "sloppy" that is?

I think the error is worse the more indexes you have going around the distributor. Your using smaller angles between each stud in the distributor so any slop in the drivetrain to the distributor contributes more of an error on the timing.

So on a four cylinder the ignition point error is much less so than on a six or eight.

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Just thinking about the "more precise firing" advantages of EDIS...

For me, the precision is just a bonus. Reliability is the biggest driver for me.

I usually do some fall junkyard runs. I've got this stuff on my shopping list.

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Comparing a 4L Oil Pump Drive "dummy" plug to a 2.9 distributor.

Cologne4L-OilDrivePlugV29.jpg (264.05 KiB) Viewed 6459 times

From the lip to the bottom of the gear is 55mm for both.
From the lip to the bottom of the shaft is 86mm for both.
The depth of the hollow shaft is the same for both (26mm)
The splines appear to be the same

[Ed Lijewski]

Naturally the accumulated backlash of the timing chain, the gear drive to the distributor, all contribute to poor accuracy of the ignition event on a distributor engine. But I wonder how "sloppy" that is?

Timing checks and adjustment if indicated address that.

YMMV

[brokencase]

Brad, In looking at the images I can't understand what would need to be machined on the 4.0L part.
Looks like it should drop right into the 2.9L

Ed I think the slop in the drive line going to the distributor probably adds at least a +-degree of scatter in the timing.
And all things be equal, the problem gets worse the more cylinders the engine has.

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Brad, In looking at the images I can't understand what would need to be machined on the 4.0L part.
Looks like it should drop right into the 2.9L

I too am mystified, and I'm the one with both parts sitting here in front of me and a spare 2.9 to drop parts into it!

It's been done. I will get it figured out.

[DPDISXR4Ti]

"May not ship to the United States..."

As always, the best laid plans of mice and men...

Now available with shipment to the USA....
https://www.ebay.com/itm/184348736976

I try not to link eBay auctions on here as they will eventually expire, but it would appear that's the only way he (elenel_200) sells. So here's the search data that should help you find it once the link above expires....

"Universal Trigger Wheel - 36-1, OD 165mm, ID 125mm, 5mm thick"
Seller's page: https://www.ebay.com/usr/elenel_200