Upgraded fuel injectors

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Father Adam
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Upgraded fuel injectors

Post by Father Adam » Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:09 pm

I came across these on eBay, the ad states they are upgraded injectors and will fit the Scorpio, does anyone know what advantages a set of these would bring over standard ones?:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Reman-Upgrade-4 ... 50&vxp=mtr

Edit:

I've viewed a YouTube video with a pretty good demonstration of the differences between the two types of injectors, quite amazing really; it doesn't state however what difference to performance or economy though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHf-6ohkgbA
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Re: Upgraded fuel injectors

Post by shadowwolffe » Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:22 pm

I grabbed 5.0 explorer injectors.

My buddy has a v6 Dakota with the single hole injectors. He switched to newer 4hole injectors. Slightly better mpg and easier start and idle.


But I'd just order newest 5.0 explorer injectors from rock auto

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Re: Upgraded fuel injectors

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:12 am

I've done this on a couple cars over the years and have been surprised by the positive difference it made. And this was with junkyard-pulled injectors that I only casually inspected/cleaned.

It goes without saying, but make sure the impedance and sizing is correct for your application. Nowadays almost all injectors are high impedance so that's not usually a concern unless we're talking XR4Ti running a factory 2.3T PCM (LA3, PE, PF3, etc). I'm currently running a '94 Ranger 2.3 PCM with a Crown Vic slot-MAF in the Brat with 32 PPH 4-hole injectors from a '96 Saab 9000.
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Re: Upgraded fuel injectors

Post by Ed Lijewski » Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:18 pm

So 5.0 'jectors are plug and play in a factory stock XR/Scorpio?
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Re: Upgraded fuel injectors

Post by shadowwolffe » Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:25 pm

The 99ish 5.0 Explorer injectors are plug and play. flow rate is the same or a little higher. Most injectors are, it's just a matter of lbs per hr. Virtually all Ford injectors are interchangeable. except for the flow rate.

19 and 24 lbs are most standard rates,

Just can't use low impedance in high impedance applications

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Re: Upgraded fuel injectors

Post by John V » Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:06 pm

shadowwolffe wrote:The 99ish 5.0 Explorer injectors are plug and play. flow rate is the same or a little higher. Most injectors are, it's just a matter of lbs per hr. Virtually all Ford injectors are interchangeable. except for the flow rate.

19 and 24 lbs are most standard rates,

Just can't use low impedance in high impedance applications
Or in the entire rest of the world, including the worlds largest injector manufacturer---its cc/min....

9Always thought it flat beeee-zarre that some people persist in talking weird units like Lebz per hour whn I cna't recall any time at any visit at a gas station since i started buying gasoline 48 years ago that I bought any pounds of gasoline....Bought a lot of gallons and bought thousands of liters and i know a liter is 1000cc but what the hell is a pound of gasoline?)
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Re: Upgraded fuel injectors

Post by shadowwolffe » Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:11 pm

A pound is how much you can get for one British pound.

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Re: Upgraded fuel injectors

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:26 pm

shadowwolffe wrote:Most injectors are, it's just a matter of lbs per hr. Virtually all Ford injectors are interchangeable. except for the flow rate.
This is a dangerous statement, although you sorta correct it by mentioning the flow rate. Indeed the various flow rates of injectors makes them NOT interchangeable, unless you have a means to account (i.e. tune) for the different flow rates.

And yea, I agree with John that the pph rating is a weird "standard" to use; CC/min makes much more sense. But it seems like the pph rating is used most often in the US when talking about American engines, so I tend to stick with that.
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Re: Upgraded fuel injectors

Post by Ed Lijewski » Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:54 pm

^^ That's why I asked which 5.slow 'injectors are plug and play. So what year(s) is/are-the '99s alone or others as well?

YMMV 8)
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Re: Upgraded fuel injectors

Post by shadowwolffe » Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:27 pm

Your right I should clarify.

If the body of the injectors are the same they will physically swap. However you need to check the part number for flow rate and not use low impedance in place of high impediance injectors.

Some of the newer style injectors can be swapped too.

Againg it is important to check flow rate. There are several web sites that list Ford injector flow rates.

99-01 5.0 explorer 4 hole yellow injectors are the same rate as a Scorpio or a couple pph more. The explorer injectors are 24pph I believe

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Re: Upgraded fuel injectors

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:05 am

shadowwolffe wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:27 pm
99-01 5.0 explorer 4 hole yellow injectors are the same rate as a Scorpio or a couple pph more. The explorer injectors are 24pph I believe
The yellow injectors are typically 19pph. The Scorpio 2.9 injectors are 14pph. You do NOT want to dump 35% more fuel into the engine. Closed-loop operation might be able to correct for that once warm, but only then.

There are plenty of 14pph injectors out there in the junkyard/eBay. Do your research.
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Re: Upgraded fuel injectors

Post by Merkurfast » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:15 pm

Funny, I was texting Jeff at Mekur Midwest about having done this with my Scorpio. I installed 89 reman heads and replaced my injectors with the 4 hole type. You definitely get better throttle response. I think horsepower increase might be slight, as well as mpg. I dont recall mine being yellow but they were the proper poundage. Price was the same as reman stock on ebay. I think anyone who installs them would be pleased.

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Re: Upgraded fuel injectors

Post by brokencase » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:30 am

Sorry, just had to revive this topic. I was thinking about this upgrade to the 4 hole Bosch injectors.
I did a little research on this. It is a little interesting.

There is a lot of debate online regarding the benefits of the newer injectors with multiple holes vs. the original single pintel style injectors.
For some reason this is most discussed on the Jeep forums regarding the earlier 4.0L engine. Which I presume is where it all started.

There are convincing videos on youtube demonstrating the improved atomization of the 4 hole injectors.
There is even a dyno test showing a few horsepower gain on the jeep motor. But I think the gains are so minimal as to be within the error of repeated dyno runs.

This web page I found to be informative...http://performancefuelsystems.com/Injec ... Corner.htm
The takeaway is in the last paragraph..

"In many production engine applications, injector spray patterns play a minimal role in combustion performance because the spray is usually not aimed at the intake valve. Instead, the spray is aimed at the intake runner wall or floor. This is done for many reasons such as for emissions or packaging constraints. In these cases, atomization occurs after the airflow picks-up the fuel either in flight or as it splashes off the runner. "

The above is indeed the case for the 2.9L Cologne. Most people don't realize that it is not sequential port injected. The injectors on the 2.9L are gang fired in groups of three. It seems crazy but they are purposefully timed to inject when the intake valve is closed! See attached page from article that I've attached. Read the first few paragraphs. It is from Autocar 1987 and was a technical overview of the 2.9L when it was first introduced.

So what do I think? After 30 years you might need to pull your injectors on your Scorpio. Most likely because of shrunked O-ring seals, clogged filters, or dirt accumulation on the nozzle tips.

It probably makes good sense to replace them with the 4 hole type. Not because of the better atomization, but because of the multi hole injectors being less susceptible to getting dirty and clogged over time. We all know how dirty the throttle body becomes on the Scorpio. Figure the same dirt accumulation is happening on the injectors.

You may see improved idle and response, but it was only because of the poor condition of your older injectors.
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Re: Upgraded fuel injectors

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:43 pm

brokencase wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:30 am
You may see improved idle and response, but it was only because of the poor condition of your older injectors.
That may very well be. The only way to know for sure would cleaning the stock injectors and then bench-marking those against a new/cleaned set of 4-hole injectors. When I've upgraded to the newer 4-hole injectors on two vehicles, I've noticed a drive-ability improvement both times, but it was a less-scientific test - existing old injectors replaced with junkyard-pulled 4-hole injectors.

My plan is to do the same with the Scorpio, but I haven't yet even stumbled across a set of injectors. 14pph 4-hole injectors are not all that common on more modern vehicles given the higher HP of modern engines. I'd also probably want to upgrade to EV6-connector injectors and rebuild the fuel injector harness at the same time.
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Re: Upgraded fuel injectors

Post by brokencase » Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:48 pm

Maybe that is it then - not scientific. "I replaced 30 year old injectors with whatever and it ran better." No doubt.

Maybe its the case of "I don't know what I'm missing" but I don't recall Scorpios running rough and having poor throttle response when they were new.

But I won't argue that injector design gets better over time and it makes sense to go with the newer style if your old ones need replacing.
I just think much of this is hype from the injector refurbers trying to drum up business. That is possible - right?

From which junkyard vehicle did you pull the 4 hole 14lb injectors from? Some 6 cylinder Ford from the late 90's I suppose?

Cheapest I can find are about $73 for a set of refurbs on ebay.
There are "new" ones that go for around $53 but I think they are from China and I don't trust them.

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