Scorpio front seat frames

Scorpio / Scorpio Cosworth Discussions - Questions, problem resolution, general talk, technical tips and modifications.
Post Reply
Merkur Club web site
PeterP11c
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun May 10, 2020 10:09 pm
Location: Los Angeles CA

Scorpio front seat frames

Post by PeterP11c »

Hello,
Given nice weather finally coming to L.A. I decided to take my Scorpio outside and vacuum the interior. It went OK until I moved the driver seat all the way forward and it stopped refusing to roll back. The motor works fine, and the switch too. I saw a slight turn each time I pressed the switch but something was holding it back. Since I couldn't even drive the car in such condition, I removed the 4 bolts attaching the seat to the frame. Flashed back to my old repairs some 25 years ago, I remembered the seat could be manually rolled back by turning one the the metal flex rods connecting motor with rail assembly. Tedious and awfully slow as it was, I managed to move it back to the original position. Quick operating test revealed the front move OK, no problem, move backwards, no go. I wonder what is the problem? Do I need another frame to swap with the old one? If so, who carries those? There is nothing on E-bay presently being offered for sale. Please advise accordingly.
Regards,
Peter P11c
MarkM
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1027
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: Richmond, VA

Re: Scorpio front seat frames

Post by MarkM »

Quick operating test revealed the front move OK, no problem, move backwards, no go. I wonder what is the problem?
Moved from Classifieds to better location to help with problem.
Mark
User avatar
DPDISXR4Ti
Site Admin
Posts: 14798
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2003 11:40 pm
Location: New York

Re: Scorpio front seat frames

Post by DPDISXR4Ti »

Have you tried tapping the motor with a hammer? My Alfa has a similar issue and that's the factory-endorsed field repair.

I could harvest a seat track with motors from my parts car if needed.

But I'm also going to drop you a PM with another possible, more local solution.
Brad
PeterP11c
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun May 10, 2020 10:09 pm
Location: Los Angeles CA

Re: Scorpio front seat frames

Post by PeterP11c »

Hi,
OK. Got your PM and replied. Used to drive my girlfriend 1974 Fiat Spider, so I know what you mean about Alfa. :D I don't think it's the motors or a switch. If the motor went bust it wouldn't be able to move the rail forward. After my manual reset, I did a test and forward motion is OK, backwards, not quite. I can see a few revolutions of the shaft and it dies down. Most likely it is in the rail assembly itself. Experienced the same problem years ago with horizontal and vertical adjustments. I think, subject to further exploration, there is a small bearing hidden inside the rail end "head" and it causes the friction. I have one old rail and will try to disassemble it to find the root of the problem. Meanwhile I am interested in the entire seat track with motors if you can get one for me.
Thank you,
Peter P11c
PeterP11c
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun May 10, 2020 10:09 pm
Location: Los Angeles CA

Re: Scorpio front seat frames and new problem

Post by PeterP11c »

The story continues. I got new turn signal/hazard light switch and dismantled the steering wheel covers to access the assembly. Well, in the process I inadvertently touched the seat switch and it all moved forward. Since it wouldn't move back, I had to remove 2 screws holding the seat at the front. Proceeded to use small pliers in order to manually turn back the frame and by chance touched the seat switch again. Surprisingly, with the seat up it began to move all the way back. Admit it's a weird way to move the seat but it proved that both motor and switch were operational. So, there is something in the rail frame that over time bends out of alignment and stops the seat adjustment. Will investigate further.
Meanwhile my new switch shorts on hazard flasher when actuated. The light is on continuously but the flasher doesn't blink and no sound is coming from the relay itself. Could it be the flasher relay that creates the short?
blugg
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1836
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:58 am
Location: Chicago area (most of the year)

Re: Scorpio front seat frames

Post by blugg »

have scorpio seat frame an motors should a road block hit. can message me when or if there is a need to replace parts 847-688-1234
Jeff
PeterP11c
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun May 10, 2020 10:09 pm
Location: Los Angeles CA

Re: Scorpio front seat frames

Post by PeterP11c »

The seat frame saga continues. Back in April, I got another driver's seat frame. It was dirty with signs of rust, but the motors worked OK and that was all that mattered. I used my Dremel rotary tool to clean it up, applied generous amounts of WD-40 and black grease. Sprayed frame areas with black matte rust inhibitor and left it all in the trunk waiting for the weather to improve and one free Sunday. Got one today. Taking off the seat was easy enough, so I took the vacuum cleaner and cleaned entire carpet underneath. More WD40 to the #10 bolts and was ready to install. At the last moment, I decided to remove seat belt arm from the previous frame and installed it in the new. Placing it was OK, although during install, I noticed some warping of the frame caused by the rear left bolt. Had to push down the corner of the frame like a washer was missing, or something, but there were none in the first place. Connected plugs and tested the operation. Front-back movement was OK, up-down, not so. The frame would only move downwards. Sh.......t. Went back to my original frame and connected plugs to see if it might work. Vertical movement was stuck. Little jerking of the rod but no movement. Again placed the "new" frame in. Since the vertical position was high enough, I decided to wrap it up and cut my misery for today. Of course, rear bolts for the seat wouldn't fit in place, but after some creative cursing and twisting my back it all fell in place. Connected the battery and began testing the seat. Front and back was OK, but quickly stopped moving backwards. Up and down was limited to the downwards movement only. Sat in and checked my position before the wheel. The driving position is fine as long I don't touch anything to improve it. Three hours of work got me only 50/50 results. Can drive as is, but cannot move the seat back and up. Later on, I will try to disassemble the part holding threaded rods for any signs of internal damage or misalignment (?) causing this situation. Something is definitely odd down there.
User avatar
brokencase
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:18 pm
Location: PA

Re: Scorpio front seat frames

Post by brokencase »

You haven't convinced me that it is not the switch that is culprit.

Unplug the switch and use jumper wire to activate the motors in the different directions.

Worn contacts in the switch or the connector can act funny. As soon as the motor hits a load and the current jumps that's when the poor contact reveals itself.

Do have a copy of the EVTM?
Specialization is for Insects
PeterP11c
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun May 10, 2020 10:09 pm
Location: Los Angeles CA

Re: Scorpio front seat frames

Post by PeterP11c »

Perhaps you are right. I had this feeling that a switch might be acting up, when I drove this afternoon. For a moment, the back move worked fine. Yes, I have a copy of Scorpio EVTM, but don't consider myself that electrical savvy. Will be on the lookout for a new switch to test the seats and narrow down my problem.
PeterP11c
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun May 10, 2020 10:09 pm
Location: Los Angeles CA

Re: Scorpio front seat frames

Post by PeterP11c »

Since last week, I have been testing the seat and switch operations to determine some pattern. There is none. One day the up function works and on another day the back function is normal. All the time the down function and forward are fully operational. So, the inevitable conclusion is the switch being the root of the problem. I have a spare one for the right front seat and will try to test it on the driver 's seat. Not sure if the plugs are compatible (left v right seat) and if there are not other impediments, except the fitting but it's worth a try.
User avatar
brokencase
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:18 pm
Location: PA

Re: Scorpio front seat frames

Post by brokencase »

In all my experience, especially when in involves the interior of the car. That part with which the human interacts with is the part that fails.

Of course the switches in the Scorpio are a little funny in this regard. They do wear out and become intermittent. But then they also go bad from not enough use as well (30 years old - oxide build up on the contacts)

Good idea is to remove the switches and give them a blast of CRC electrical cleaner (Walmart sells it). Also - take the time every once and a while to cycle all the switches. Especially the rear windows and the rear seat reclining switches...they hardly get used.
Specialization is for Insects
PeterP11c
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun May 10, 2020 10:09 pm
Location: Los Angeles CA

Re: Scorpio front seat frames

Post by PeterP11c »

CRC, you say? OK. Got some in my trunk. Will take it out and clean up. I hope it also works on those window switches. My rear ones stopped working a long time ago. Thanks for the tip. Appreciate it. :D
Ed Lijewski
Level 8
Posts: 8412
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:53 pm
Location: The Belly of The Beast

Re: Scorpio front seat frames

Post by Ed Lijewski »

If you disassemble the window switches the CRC or equivalent might help. Just spraying them from the button sides won't do anything as the spray can't effectively reach the metallic contact points. I know as I've tried this. If disassembled, you can slide a CRC-dampened swab of paper towel between the contacts but not easily.

I don't know about trying that with the seat switches.

YMMV
Descartes: "Cogito Ergo Sum"
Lijewski: "Sum Ergo Drive-O. Mucho!
PeterP11c
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun May 10, 2020 10:09 pm
Location: Los Angeles CA

Re: Scorpio front seat frames

Post by PeterP11c »

I never took apart window switches. Have a few so will give it a try. I gather prying the bottom with a small screwdriver should do. There are two tabs on the each side but it all has a rather tight fit. The seat switches have larger holes for the pins to move about. There you can spray some CRC with a good chance of penetration. This afternoon, I will the put theory to practice and see how it all works.
Last edited by PeterP11c on Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
PeterP11c
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun May 10, 2020 10:09 pm
Location: Los Angeles CA

Re: Scorpio front seat frames

Post by PeterP11c »

Today is the day. I replaced seat switches on both front seats. Driver's switch kicked in right away but the passenger's one required a generous squirt of the CRC inside the holes. Since decades have passed, I also cleaned the inside of the plastic trim flanking the seat. Seat rails also got sprayed with WD40 and wiped out. For now, that will do, almost OEM condition. Seats move as intended and that makes me happy. On the side, I got two malfunctioning switches that might lead to another repair job. Any suggestions as how to, are welcome as always. :D
Post Reply