ABS Master Cylinder / Pump Assembly

[Ed Lijewski]

I should have noted in my post that subsequently I disconnected a front wheel sensor and have been driving with normal power assist braking since working.

Brad might try that.

YMMV

[DPDISXR4Ti]

But the brakes work properly? At least as much as you know...???

Pretty much functional, yes. When I hear the clicking the brakes seem to go a little firmer. The other issue is the slight pull to the right if I really jump on the brakes. With typical brake pressure that condition is not observed.

[brokencase]

I should have noted in my post that subsequently I disconnected a front wheel sensor and have been driving with normal power assist braking since working.

Brad might try that.

YMMV

Ed don't you get an ABS light on the dash if the sensors are disconnected? Very strange if you are having problems with new sensors connected on the front. Maybe clean the connectors? Or maybe the sensors are not the problem? Best to test sensors off car with an old fashioned analog ohm meter and wiggle the cables around around to see if the meter needle jumps around.

Once in a blue moon I'll get a rapid pulsing sensation in the pedal. It seems to me like the ABS computer somehow got a false impression that ABS was needed then quickly changed it's mind. Typically mild braking around a corner and hitting a bump. Extremely rare.

No chance this winter to check out if ABS is functioning. No snow. But I think it is still working ok.

[Ed Lijewski]

Yes, ABS light is on. I've been daily driving with it that way for weeks.

The new sensors were new manufactures from MPM. Exact measurements and fit. I separately bought sets for my 89 and then my 88.

I have a hunch that the ABS computer senses a slightly different signal from the new sensors compared to the installed rear (original) sensors. This because I experienced the same issues on both cars separately in time after installing the new sensors (upon driving each a mile or so).

Weirdly, on reinstalling the originally installed front wheel sensors on the 89 (haven't yet done it on the 88), the same experience resulted.

Possibly the ABS computer stores in memory what type of signals it recognized as good, and the new sensor wires signals are a bit different.

Disconnecting the battery and later reconnecting it was my next thought, but I temporarily walked away from this issue to reflect on everything and just drive the cars as is.

I know how to measure sensor wires Hall Effect output, but that's much easier done on a lift than via trolley jacks, plus disconnecting the rear sensors requires loosening those calipers to get at the sensor hold-down bolts.

I also wondered about asking Jeff at MPM if any other purchasers of front wheel sensors had similar experiences. (Jeff only had front sensors made as those are subject to fuller spectrum movements in operation).

Anyone ever see or know of a Ford breakout box for the Scorpio ABS?

YMMV

[brokencase]

I should put those Transit sensors on my Scorpio to see if they work. My plan was to wait for my existing sensors to fail.

The Scorpio sensors are not Hall effect - they are inductive. I measured very similar resistance between the stock sensors and the Transit sensors.

It is unfortunate you are having troubles. It is just sinusoidal signal coming out of the sensors. It is very much like an electric guitar pickup.

[Ed Lijewski]

My research so far hasn't established that our sensors are Hall Effect or inductive, but given that our distributors have Hall Effect PIPs maybe they are also (yeah, just a surmise).

This finding from the link below seems critical:

"Wheel speed sensor failures
The first check on your sensors is a simple DC check. The resistance on the connectors should be 1100 +- 300
Ohms. If you find a short or an open, replace the sensor. You MUST replace the sensor with the correct front/back
left/rear item. They are NOT interchangeable."

Debugging the ABS system https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/attach ... system.pdf

Years ago I pulled all four sensors from my (running) parts car and marked their original location in black ink on a piece of white tape on each. Unfortunately the ink faded enough so Right Front or Left Front faded to indistinguishable now.

Whether or not the above statement is correct I doubt Jeff/MPM would have known of it for his remanufactured front sensors (which aren't marked Left or Right).

YMMV

[andyofcolumbusmerkur]

Yes, ABS light is on. I've been daily driving with it that way for weeks.
Anyone ever see or know of a Ford breakout box for the Scorpio ABS?
YMMV

I wonder if any info from the Ferrari world would help? After doing a search for autel teves abs and reading about the Autel MK808 this link to ferrarichat popped up. Guess they had various teves versions between the 308 and 355. Possibly someone has made a breakout box or way to connect a newer abs scan tool for use on some other teves mark 2 equipped car? Like a Pontiac, Buick, Olds, Cadillac, Lincoln etc?

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threa ... em.613354/
https://www.autel.com/mk2/3227.jhtml

[andyofcolumbusmerkur]

The OTC 3762 (pricey and no longer made) but the tool can data stream for most 1987 and newer abs systems
The Waekon 20480 also a possible option
http://www.aa1car.com/library/abstestr.htm

[Ed Lijewski]

The OTC 3762 (pricey and no longer made) but the tool can data stream for most 1987 and newer abs systems
The Waekon 20480 also a possible option
http://www.aa1car.com/library/abstestr.htm

Re the OTC: "It covered 1996 to 2005 vehicles including most Audi, Chrysler, Ford, GM, Honda, Isuzu, Jeep, Mazda, Nissan, Saturn, Toyota and VW models."

The Waekon new is at least ~ $200, and reviews are few with one basic and the other "meh". Even a low price used one might be best to stay away from.

YMMV

[Ed Lijewski]

Yes, ABS light is on. I've been daily driving with it that way for weeks.
Anyone ever see or know of a Ford breakout box for the Scorpio ABS?
YMMV

I wonder if any info from the Ferrari world would help? After doing a search for autel teves abs and reading about the Autel MK808 this link to ferrarichat popped up. Guess they had various teves versions between the 308 and 355. Possibly someone has made a breakout box or way to connect a newer abs scan tool for use on some other teves mark 2 equipped car? Like a Pontiac, Buick, Olds, Cadillac, Lincoln etc?

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threa ... em.613354/
https://www.autel.com/mk2/3227.jhtml

Scorpios' (1987-88-89) ABS is an early (second generation, or Mark II) Teves system. Ferraris ('95/'96 in the Chat) came with a later Teves version, IIRC Mark IV, which supported ABS codes and scanning capability; like OBD-II does. The two versions may have basic technological similarity but tools for later Teves systems don't say they also work on Mark II (and earlier) systems unfortunately. Teves Mark II doesn't have or store trouble codes.

YMMV

[Just FYI for Dean: https://www.facebook.com/groups/7071710 ... 495308136/]

[andyofcolumbusmerkur]

Right under where it says "covers 1996-2005 vehicles" it says it can data stream most 1987 and newer abs systems. So I would guess OBD2 plugs right in and is a piece of cake. Older stuff not so much. That Waekon claims to be superior compared to reading ohms with a multimeter. I never used one so I can't say if it does what it claims or not. I have heard the Autel stuff is pretty good but I have no knowledge at all when it comes to those other brands in the link.

[brokencase]

My collection of Teeves troubleshooting stuff.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/luurozy9 ... f.zip/file

[Ed Lijewski]

1988 Alfa Romeo FS ad: note "ABS delete".

(Car sold in a flash.)

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/im ... a12b5a.jpg

YMMV

[my8950]

1988 Alfa Romeo FS ad: note "ABS delete".

(Car sold in a flash.)

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/im ... a12b5a.jpg

YMMV

Are there close up pictures available? I clicked, but maybe it's a photo of the ad?

[Ed Lijewski]

The ad disappeared fast.

The link is from the end of this article:

https://jalopnik.com/at-8-500-is-this-1 ... 1847015353

YMMV