ABS Master Cylinder / Pump Assembly

[Fresh Air Inspector]

Hello Ed,

I don't disagree as that was my first plan of action. However, at $250 USD plus shipping, plus Canadian taxes, plus conversion to Canadian dollars = app. $400 CAD!! I can experiment with this conversion for the same 'out of pocket' expense and end up with a solution that will outlast the car.

Regarding the company 'Sweeting Performance' you recommended I'm unsure as to how 'customer service' focused they are. I've contacted them by email twice in the past few months and in neither case did they respond. They must be doing really well to be able to walk away from customers.

[Ed Lijewski]

I don't recall ever mentioning that firm name. ??

How many miles/year are you driving the Scorpio now, and are you likely to in years to come?

The ABS with new accumulator may outlast your likely total usage.

And your time and labor on the retrofitting has opportunity costs well above the $400 CAD I will wager.

YMMV

[brokencase]

Agree fully, it would be throwing good money after bad. That ABS system is almost 35 years old. I can't believe mine still functions.

I would say that I might try rebuilding the master cylinder portion of the the unit since I have purchased the kit for that. But if that did not help I would toss in the towel on the ABS.

The ebay universal master and proportion valve come in well under $200. Yes, there is some work involved, and some extra fittings required.

But it puts the issue to bed for a long time.

[andyofcolumbusmerkur]

Cute!

But not correct.

It says on the Helms website that they reprint factory manuals. So the copyright says ford. Yet it is still entirely possible that the very first factory service manuals for the Merkur were made in a building owned by Helms on equipment owned by Helms. Then sent to a Ford/Lincoln/Mercury parts department with nothing indicating the maker except for that copyright. So it is easy to prove that it is correct to say the Helms manual is a factory service manual. But hard to prove that the factory service manual is actually a Helms manual. We need a video of this neighbor talking about his experiences working for helms, along with witnesses that were present at the time of the video recording. Along with signed and notarized statements of all the parties involved. And experts to analyze the video to make sure it is not a deep fake. And of course signed and notarized statements from them as well.

[Ed Lijewski]

YMMV

[brokencase]

Paul Doering had in his old web site...

12/17/87 Added pressure­ differential valve to rear brakes TSB 89-­20­-01

Unfortunately I cannot find this TSB document online - but I sure would like to read it! If anybody can find it, post it!

However, this provides additional information about when the change was implemented.

What is crazy is my Scorpio is a 1988. How come I don't have it?

[brokencase]

It says on the Helms website that they reprint factory manuals. So the copyright says ford. Yet it is still entirely possible that the very first factory service manuals for the Merkur were made in a building owned by Helms on equipment owned by Helms. Then sent to a Ford/Lincoln/Mercury parts department with nothing indicating the maker except for that copyright. So it is easy to prove that it is correct to say the Helms manual is a factory service manual. But hard to prove that the factory service manual is actually a Helms manual. We need a video of this neighbor talking about his experiences working for helms, along with witnesses that were present at the time of the video recording. Along with signed and notarized statements of all the parties involved. And experts to analyze the video to make sure it is not a deep fake. And of course signed and notarized statements from them as well.

You are out of your mind. It's the Helm's manual. Uhhh.. if you mention "Factory Service manual" I will respond "Huh? what are you talking about?"
"Oh...you must mean the Helm's manual!"

We say "Helm's manual" to provide distinction from inferior "Chilton's", "Haynes", etc...

You think Ford has it's own publishing house? Granted, Ford had a failed attempt at rubber plantations in the Amazon way back. I can assure you they don't have a paper mill and printing presses down in the Amazon as well!

You're such a crazy guy...

ItsHelmsStupid.jpg (38.57 KiB) Viewed 5758 times

[Fresh Air Inspector]

Hello Ed,

First, Sweeting Performance is the name of the company you flagged via the link below;

https://www.powerbrakeservice.net/bracforlimav.html

I believe that the ~$400 CAD to do this conversion is worth it in the long run. The original system is overly complex and VERY EXPENSIVE to maintain assuming one can even find the parts to do so. I recognize that doing this modification is ambitious but if it is successful it will be fully documented and shared with this forum. The hope is that it will help others in the future.

Hello All,

Let's compromise and call the service manual we all use the 'Factory Service Manual' (or FSM)!!! Hopefully that works for everyone and we can get back to solving the problems / issues we have with our cars.

[Ed Lijewski]

Hoisted by his own petard:

20211122_164005.jpg (186.72 KiB) Viewed 5754 times

They're FORD publications.

So it's the Ford Shop Manual

20211122_164734.jpg (499.85 KiB) Viewed 5754 times

Ergo, either Ford Shop Manual, or Merkur (Scorpio or XR4Ti) Shop Manual is prefered.


No one who bought any Manufacturer's republished manual or other book from Amazon, Border's, Barnes and Noble or other ever refers to the item as "the Amazon", "the Border's", "the Barnes and Noble", manual or book.

[Note: An inbred sect in Pennsylvania (c.f. Amish and Ammonite et al) strives to continue an illogical naming convention for Ford publications but has seen no conversions to its practice in recent years. The sect's practicing membership appears to number one.]

YMMV

[Ed Lijewski]

When considering a strategy to address an issue Occam's Razor is my first and often only go-to.

$250 U.S./$400 CAD to me for a new accumulator that will likely perform optimally for years and or miles, and likely enable the ABS MC to do so similarly, is acceptable. And I never spend like a sober much less drunken sailor on shore leave. Some expenditures are simply acceptable given no other market alternatives. Well, "good used units' are an alternative but can be a gamble depending on the seller.

YMMV

[andyofcolumbusmerkur]

Kind of silly to worry about, but I guess it makes sense that Ford didn't do very much printing. Just like they didn't make certain parts just farmed out the job to someone else. All while still calling it their part and giving it a Ford part number. So like 99% of the time you both are technically correct but still trying to prove the other is somehow not correct or just doesn't know what they are talking about. I am ready for my rolling eyes emoji now.

[andyofcolumbusmerkur]

Ford parts and service division training and publications department.

[brokencase]

I have provided you a text search of the IMON archives, literally hundreds of prior (and current) members of the Merkur Community, all who which refer to it as "The Helm's manual"

Ed, et. al., seem happy to disregard these as "lemmings" or "inbreeds". So be it!

Sorry, It's the Helms Manual.

And can we please move this discussion to the "Off-Topic" section of the forum?

[brokencase]

When considering a strategy to address an issue Occam's Razor is my first and often only go-to.

$250 U.S./$400 CAD to me for a new accumulator that will likely perform optimally for years and or miles, and likely enable the ABS MC to do so similarly, is acceptable. And I never spend like a sober much less drunken sailor on shore leave. Some expenditures are simply acceptable given no other market alternatives. Well, "good used units' are an alternative but can be a gamble depending on the seller.

YMMV

Ed, the cars are 34 years old. I think it is very naïve to assume that a simple replacement of the accumulator will provide additional years of service.
There are other parts here that wear out.

The master cylinder on my 2003 Sport Trac only lasted 70-75k before requiring replacement. Fortunately it was about $35 for a new master.
As I stated previously, I can't believe my Scorpio ABS/MC have lasted up until now.

There are not a lot of options for keeping the original ABS going.
One could fork up $800+ for this NOS item that has been up on ebay for years.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/163707642895

There is the rebuild kit for the master portion of the ABS unit (~$35 + work), and this does not address any ABS problems.

We have the $250 accumulator. Is that newly manufactured or has it been sitting on the shelf for god knows how many years?

I believe exploring an alternative solution for the original ABS/MC is well worth pursuing. If done correctly (i.e., don't alter the original lines/fittings as I described) then such a conversion could be fully reversible. So you could pull your ABS unit out and save it for the next guy, if so desired.

I actually think the original ABS system is quite primitive compared to today's standards. Slow pump up on starting after sitting, rare false triggering where the pedal goes clicky click, etc..

I believe that overall pedal feel and normal braking would be vastly improved with a vacuum assisted master. Yes, it won't be as good in panic stop.
After exploring all the options since this thread started I feel much more comfortable that inexpensive alternatives are possible.

One thing not investigated here is the possibility of swapping a full ABS system from a modern vehicle. I have a hunch that contemporary setups are of a much simpler and more robust design. For example. The master on my Sport Trac was just like a normal master cylinder with power brake booster. The ABS part was a separate unit off to the side. I don't think there was a pump or accumulator.

[Ed Lijewski]

Suggest you use Brad's parts Scorpio as the mule for your retrofit experiment.

YMMV