Rear Windows

[PeterP11c]

I have also experienced low battery charge when car was idle for a couple of weeks. Few years back, I invested in Schumacher battery charger and use it when leaving on extended trips. Never leave the battery in the car, charge a to a full 100% before the trip and then repeat upon return. Well charged battery gets 13.4V but then quickly drops to about 13.0V.

[brokencase]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2sW14gQNN4

I've been spraying just the exposed track. This guy does it better. He sprays a bunch down low and works the window up and down so it flows down into the track inside the door.

You learn something new every day...

Naturally, the rear windows on the Scorpio don't go down all the way. Just our luck.

I want to emphasize the issue I see in the EVTM regarding the rear window motor circuit.

There is a lot of wiring and switches the power has to go through before it gets to the rear window motors. Specifically it has to go through the console enable switch then the console switches before it goes to the the big connector at the door hinge and then it gets to the switches at the door.
I'll bet the voltage drops to around 10 volts by the time it gets to the motors. Note that this is not the case for the front window motors and is probably the main reason we see high failures on only the rear window motors.

There are other exacerbating factors such as window track lubrication and the moisture build up inside the doors.

It makes sense to apply the conductive grease to all these connectors to ensure good voltage at the motors.

So my plan is to apply the conductive grease to the center console switches and to the door harness connectors near the door hinges.

[Ed Lijewski]

I've been DD-ing my 89 for many months this year.

Decided today after coming home to connect a battery maintainer to it using the maintainer with an LED state of charge indicator (10% gradations) just see what its state if charge is.

The car was sitting for a few hours. I unlocked the door to unlatch the hood, locked the door and connected the maintainer which in 3/4 seconds read 80-70-80-90 and remained at 90 while charging the battery. That battery is ~ +2 years old. ThecOE alternator has been doing its job well.

As I initially connected the maintainer clamps to the battery I noticed at the negative pole a not-tight 12/14 gauge ground wire. I typically check and tighten as needed battery connections a few times a year. This time I found all connections at positive and negative poles needed tightening. I can only speculate that the recent temperature drop was involved in some way. I note this here as a reminder to others to check their battery cables and power and ground taps for tightness.

YMMV

[brokencase]

Ed, Do you think is this what was causing your rear window not to move?

Despite our other disputes your idea of applying higher voltage to the window motors to get them moving again was a good one.

[Ed Lijewski]

No, all windows on that car, the '89, have worked fine.

And the '88 is always connected to a battery maintainer as I drive it infrequently only because I love/LOVE the black-with-raven-interior combination.

I had long speculated that a voltage shock would stimulate non-responsive window motors. It was on my to-do list if needed. I wasn't in a hurry to do that as my experience with that window over years was that at some it would respond normally. This last period of non-responsiveness was a bit longer but not concerning. What I did differently that time was to work rapidly the window switch right after start-up when the battery charge was "Full" on the maintainer and the alternator was likely outputting over 14v.

It's good that you proved for others with photos that voltage shock is worth trying.

On silicone, here or other threads I posted earlier about using it to lubricate window channels; it couldn't hurt and could help window up/down actions. I watched the YouTube video. Two thoughts: I'd always use a spray straw to lubricate deeper in the channels; and spraying just a dab is all that's needed (you won't have silicone all over the window, or a silicone pool in the window well to coagulate from debris).

YMMV

[Ed Lijewski]

Three weeks on and today I drove my Brown '88 (after installing a brand new accumulator) and the driver's side rear window worked perfectly a few time-separated tries.

On parking it three weeks ago, I didn't raise that window up to full stop, but left it ~"1/4 from that thinking if the motor became recalcitrant again that space would allow some downward manual levering if needed. I did the same today, just case...

YMMV

[john keefe]

Or, you could keep a tiler's suction cup (i.e., glass suction cup) in the car to get it started, then you don't have to worry about rain.

[Ed Lijewski]

Thought of using suction cups, just regular ones in large size. But unless you have long chimpanzee arms you can't work the tile/or sheet glass tool and also reach the center console rear window switch at the same time. OTOH I'm confident I could rock the console switch with my left hand (driver's door open) while levering the window with a slim wooden tool.

The car when parked is under a car cover so rain even if horizontal can't get in (tornados or derechos excepted); the ~1/4" gap is small.

YMMV

[john keefe]

Ah, OK. Now I get it.

[brokencase]

Tell you what. Pushing down on the glass is hit or miss.

It's a worm drive so you not really turning the motor. I think it is the case of "jostling" the shaft of the motor. This seems to be enough to alter the positioning of the brushes on the commutator, get past the oxide build up and then it goes.

At least this is my theory. Driving them with the higher voltage also seems to achieve the same result. 18 volt Makita battery worked well, but if I had 20 volts it would have been even better.

Best bet is to work the rear windows up and down every time you get in the car. Especially after times of prolonged moisture and high humidity.

[Ed Lijewski]

Yes. But if that window again went into recalcitrance mode I"d first try the approach I described. It's fewer steps. (Occam's razor.)

BTW, yesterday the '88 which is always on the battery maintainer when not used daily started briskly in ~40-45* temp as expected. Drove a few miles for coffee at a McD's cantina .When leaving the battery spun the starter remarkably briskly, so much so that it caught my attention. I haven't checked voltage, but the oomph the battery has (+~3 years old) is impressive, at least if not better than off-the-shelf new.

I'm a commited battery maintainer user.

YMMV

[brokencase]

I think the real root of the problem is the weather striping was marginal to begin with and is even worse now that the cars are as old as they are.
With heavy rains the water gets down inside the door.

Any idea where we can get a new piece of the weather stripping that presses on the outside edge of the glass? Sure would like to replace that with something fresh and pliable.

Crown seems to make stuff, but I don't know what would fit the Scorpio...
https://www.carparts.com/weatherstrip-seal

[Ed Lijewski]

Drove my '88 today several weeks sitting.

Left rear window motor responded fine (right rear always has done so).

Buuut... sunroof motor didn't (first time in +25 years).

YMMV

[Ed Lijewski]

Sun roof opened/closed today.

YMMV

[brokencase]

My driver's side passenger window froze again. Need to hit it with the drill battery again.

You really have to exercise these windows frequently to keep them from freezing up. Especially with periods of weather with high moisture and humidity.