Rear Windows

[Ed Lijewski]

My 89 windows have worked perfectly.

The left rear on my 88 occasionally would not respond to switch inputs (retract from full up) but when I would drive it (doesn't happen often, just monthly typically) I'd work the window switch up/down rapidly, and usually that would get the motor to work.

Some months ago that procedure didn't work, as often as I tried it while driving the car around on errands. I felt resigned to having to dig into it to address whatever needed attention.

Today I was out on the monthly exercising jaunt Et Voila, 10-15 seconds of rapid up/down switch button pressing and the window responded.

I've surmised that higher voltage might help get the window motor turning. Today the battery had a full charge from its battery maintainer and in start up and go mode only the blower on low was using system current so I assume voltage was in the 14+V area.

We'll see. I'll apply silicone spray to the window channels (pretty sure I did that some time ago too my fleet) in the thought that it reduces friction and does no harm.

When I remember I alternate parking this car front facing in to rear facing in to vary solar heat effect (I use a Tyvek car cover which helps deflect heat but not all) on the greased areas.

YMMV

[PeterP11c]

I also experienced erratic rear windows operation. Last summer, after major overhaul of all three doors, removing the panel, lifting the liner and extensive lubrication of channels, motor and motor connections I thought all was good. It took a week of cooler, misty weather to impact the left rear window. It simply stopped working. So I drove my Scorpio for grocery shopping and left the car in the sun. Upon return from the store it all came back. Just like that. So, for now, every time I start the engine, I work the rear switch to get the window rolling a bit. I still have the right rear window to fix. The original motor went bad and I need to replace it. Luckily, I got the spare, but drilling through four rivets kind of discourages me from doing it. Will need to refer it to my mechanic as I don't have the proper tools for the job.

[Fresh Air Inspector]

Hello Ed,

Don't forget that 3 of the windows (RF, LR, RR), all route through 2 sets of switches (see EVTM manual, page 124 and 125). If the contacts are a little dirty (high resistance), add in low nominal voltage and you will have a recipe for an intermittent issue. I had your issue happen once, one rear window (can't remember which one), wouldn't operate from the console switch (engine running), opened the rear door, tried the door switch and the window went up and down. Tried the console switch immediately afterwards (engine still running), and it also worked (window up and down). Go figure?

My assumption is dirty contacts due to lack of use. If you have contact cleaner try spraying this inside the switch housing and operate the switch about 10 times. This should do the trick.

Can't comment on the 'heat from the sun' theory unless the warmth dried out any moisture contaminating the switch contacts.

Hope it helps.

Let us know if this solves your issue.

[PeterP11c]

I did use the spray contact cleaner on switches as part of my refurbishing work. Over the years driving and fixing Scorpio, I came to a simple conclusion: this car likes to be driven. When left unattended it usually developed all kinds of kinks, like erratic speedometer, windows not working, temperature gauge going up and then mysteriously correcting itself. Once, on a Saturday afternoon I had a situation when talking to a friend and driving Scorpio, I mentioned a need for a new car. Within two minutes my thermostat froze in closed position and we had a hard time getting back home. Came Monday morning, my mechanic said: "The thermostat was in a closed position. What did you do? I opened my big mouth", I said and he burst out laughing. This car surely is a "character" but also a lovely ride.

[Ed Lijewski]

In prior years I tried using different switches from my bag of spare switches on the left passenger door, including using the driver's door window switch which worked fine there on the left rear door, to no avail. Also disconnected and reconnected the power cable at the door hinge to renew its contacts, to no avail. I've also disassembled and cleaned switch contacts there, to no avail when the motor just didn't respond normally. All to avoid removing the motor. Eventually and suddenly the motor would respond. For me, and Peter, it's been the left rear door window, strangely.

On my '89 the P.O. told me his right rear window was balky. Long story short when I bought it I found on checking the switch female power harness that at the factory it had been strapped down to the door frame with a zip tie such that when the door panel was installed and the the window switch installed it made only partial insertion to the female harness end. I removed the zip tie to give the harness a bit more slack, reconnected the switch to it, and the motor responded to switch controls at both locations.

We'll see if the '88 left rear window continues to operate normally when I next take it on a drive.

YMMV

[PeterP11c]

Yeah, I wonder if anyone had replaced the rear window motor? Does the job require pulling out the window glass as well?

[brokencase]

If both rear windows are not working then be sure to check the rear power cutoff switch and the rear power cutoff relay.
In addition check fuse 24. If fuse 24 is bad then the rear seat recline will not work either.

The problem is the doors in the Scorpio get moisture in them, so it is a humid environment. If the motors are not cycled regularly then some sort of oxidation occurs on the brushes/contacts of the window motors.

I had one "break free" where I had actually pulled down on the glass while simultaneously cycling the switch. But this rarely works because the motors are worm drive. So any motion of the mechanism does not really spin the motors.

Ed's idea of applying a slightly higher than normal voltage is intriguing. But I think I would attempt with a separate battery pack and apply it directly at the motor that is not moving...i.e., with the motor separate from the rest of the circuit. You could use an 18v rechargeable drill battery pack or make up your own from four 18650 lithium ion cells (of the high drain type).

Looking at the EVTM it looks like you can do this by removing the windows switch from it's connector on the rear door and apply the external power on the GR and BL wires on the connector. You will have to swap the polarity to figure out which way is up/down. Apply the power in short pulses until you figure out which way to go. If nothing happens then your issue is in the motor.

If this works and you get the motor moving, and after assembly it still does not work then you can assume your problems are elsewhere.
The switches, the relay, the fuse, etc...

Of course if it is only you driving the car, then who cares what the rear windows do (or not do)?

[PeterP11c]

Call me impractical, but I like all things to work in my car, windows included. My RR window was inoperable ever since I got the car in 92. There were other priorities to consider and many more things to repair. However with Covid-19 lockdown, I got extra spare time and began to address the issue. So, while refurbishing all windows, I dismantled the entire panel on RR and connected the spare motor. It worked, leaving the remaining problem on how to take the old motor out. Metal sheet on Scorpio door allows for limited hand access and the Manual clearly states: "drill the rivets out". In my situation, that's a job for a mechanic's shop.

[brokencase]

OK, Well, Call me a man of my words. I too have a stuck rear passenger window. Now that the subject was brought up it was bothering me a little

So a moment ago I just finished what I spoke of above.

Step 1...Unscrew the bezel

unscrew_bezel.jpg (236.13 KiB) Viewed 9373 times

Step 2...Pop the bezel

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Step 3...Pop the switch

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Careful removing the switch. You have to push the sprung metallic tabs to get it to pop out of the bezel. After this you can unplug the switch.
Notice the rust corrosion on the spring tabs. This comes about because of the moist environment inside the doors.

Use a small screwdriver or pocket knife to help separate the connector from the switch.

[brokencase]

I first tried three lithium cells in series but they did not have sufficient "umph" to move the window motor.
So I used the Makita 18v drill battery instead which readily moved the windows motor. I did not have to play with the driver's side but I did it on that side in order to verify the battery would work since I knew that window motor worked. Plus I wanted to apply the conductive Kopr-Shield grease to the switch contacts on that side anyway.

On the passenger side the window would not move. Once again I had to clasp the window on both sides with my hands and push it down. It does not move hardly at all when you do this. I then applied the battery several times back and forth and it finally moved. I then cycled it up and down many times afterwards.

I think Ed's idea of higher voltage to help break the motors free is validated and the 18v Makita battery is just about the right medicine.

The contacts in the connector to apply power to are on the opposite sides of the switch connector as shown in the photo. I used two clip leads with two washer placed into the battery contacts and two nails to put into the connector.

BTW, I also applied the conductive grease to fuse 24 contacts in the fuse box. Be advised fuse 24 is not one of the typical plastic fuses. It is in a metallic can located next to the relays.

Final step was to spray the window track velour with silicone spray. In my opinion you need to do this regularly.

The whole process took me about 20 minutes. My rear windows now are all working just fine.

Now I just need to keep up the habit of working them from time to time.

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kopr_shield_it.jpg (263.72 KiB) Viewed 9373 times

[PeterP11c]

Actually, I did remove the entire door panel, disconnected all electrical wiring to the switch, lifted the foam liner and disconnected the motor itself. Then I plugged my spare motor to the wiring and held it in hand. The driver's console switch energized the motor and it worked. Conclusion was simple, the original motor went bad. I didn't apply any high voltage just the regular current drawn from the battery. I don't know what happened years ago, but the first owner must have busted the motor and never bothered to repair it. My other three windows work just fine, so the cleaning and lubrication process worked OK. Once I get to have the RR window motor replaced, perhaps I will tinker with it to find the original root of the problem. Until then.............

[brokencase]

Peter,
You will never know if application of higher than normal voltage would have resolved your issue without having to replace the motor. I think it would have.

One thing I noticed in this exercise. After all was said and done, if I turned the key on to the accessory position with the engine off, then the rear window motors would move very slowly. If I stared the engine then they would move much more rapidly.

I think I am now going to pull the console rear window switches in order to apply the conductive grease to those contacts as well. What we have here is a long sequence of wire, contacts, and switches before the power actually gets to the rear motors. These all contribute to a voltage drop to the rear window motors that are then additionally challenged by the moist environment and the drag of the window channels that creep in over time.

I put my battery on charge after this project. I have been driving the car lately but not very far. Such as Ed has related.
My charger is "intelligent" and it indicated my AGM battery was at 60%

I should also add that my center console rear window disable switch has been now replaced by a more modern switch.

[PeterP11c]

If the original motor was operable, then you are right, some voltage manipulation might kick it into movement. Mine was just dead and I replaced switches to make sure. No drop in windows movement on stopped engine either. No problem with central console. Sometimes these motors just go bad. Mine apparently did. I stopped dwelling what if, my focus is on getting the old motor out and new one in.

[Ed Lijewski]

I put my battery on charge after this project. I have been driving the car lately but not very far. Such as Ed has related.
My charger is "intelligent" and it indicated my AGM battery was at 60%

And that is with your Titan 130 (IIRC) amp alternator.

From many years of connecting car batteries to battery maintainers I've observed that even Scorpios used daily and even only in daylight don't keep batteries fully charged. Maybe on some occasions (long highway trips) closer to full, but not necessarily, depending on battery condition. Maybe acceptable full charge in the industry is defined as, e.g., +/- 90% range where cold starting is assured except in way below zero temps and all accesory power draws are satisfied under typical usage conditions.

I've found that connecting the one of my three maintainers with LED readout of 10% increments of state of charge even after a good drive the readout indicates at best say 90%. IOW, good but not full status. Testing voltage at the battery poles may read 12.7 but connecting the maintainer may indicate less than full charge.

This is the reason I always connect maintainers to my cars that I won't drive daily. And even any car I drive daily will, when I remember to do it, get an overnight date ("hookup...") with a maintainer. All this requires some effort but the way the sound of starters spinning the motor with more torque especially in cold weather is well worth it.

And may also keep window motors responding to switch commands.

YMMV

[brokencase]

And that is with your Titan 130 (IIRC) amp alternator.

Correct, but to be clear, For as little as I had driven it these past few months and had I still had the Bosch alternator it would not have started at all.