Motor mounts + Timing Belt + valve cover compatibility

XR4Ti / Sierra / Sierra Cosworth Discussions - Questions, problem resolution, general talk, technical tips and modifications.
thesameguy
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1991
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Motor mounts + Timing Belt + valve cover compatibility

Post by thesameguy » Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:46 pm

I *think* I may have dodged my oil pan leak as long as I can... I think it crossed the point of no return over the past few weeks - it visibly dripped on the ground. I can't handle that.

Before I tear it apart, I cleaned up the underside so I could be sure it's not the front main seal. I'm honestly not sure which work I'd rather do, but I definitely don't wanna do the wrong one.

*If* it's the oil pan, probably oughta replace the motor mounts. I have no idea how old they are, but at least 15 years. :) They physically look good, but I can't really tell if they've collapsed or not.. Here are some photos - I'm hoping someone with more experience can weigh in:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AqwvoBt9ZBp2gpcoDa1 ... A?e=yGFgaq

Space between the crossmember and oil pan is tight, but its there.... I can slip some 1/16" or so aluminum between the two cleanly.

Questions:

1. If it's motor mount time, what are my best options? I'm not looking for more firm... the car is intolerable enough as it is. ;) Repurposed Thunderbird mounts?

2. If it's the front main seal, I'll obviously do the timing belt at the same time. It only has 50k on it, but it's 12 years old. Probably due. I think I'd like to switch to the round tooth belt. What's the best option there in 2019?

3. I perpetually fighting the valve cover breather and I hate it. The separator doesn't fit well, the grommets get hard quickly. I'm really fed up. I have a stamped steel valve cover from a '90s Ranger, with a hose nipple for the PCV. Does anyone know if this will physically for on the XR? I can't immediately see why it won't, so I'd like to give it a try.

Muchas gracias!

Ed Lijewski
Level 8
Posts: 7142
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:53 pm
Location: The Belly of The Beast

Re: Motor mounts + Timing Belt + valve cover compatibility

Post by Ed Lijewski » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:16 pm

Motor mounts: what I've seen on one is the stud center portion separated from the outer body; that's not apparent from side views.

I installed a set of Rapido's new gel-filled isolators (~$220+) seeking to quell an irritating metallic vibration (found the source of it later, unrelated to isolators). My original isolators are in fine physical shape and available for continued use.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 3824217341

Oil pan clearance on my XR is maybe 1/4"‐2/5" or a bit more; sufficient. 1/16" seems sketchy.

MPM might have new breather grommets. (A few years ago Ford dealerships still had the 2.3 grommets available (late model XRs).

YMMV
Descartes: "Cogito Ergo Sum"
Lijewski: "Sum Ergo Drive-O. Mucho!

thesameguy
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1991
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Motor mounts + Timing Belt + valve cover compatibility

Post by thesameguy » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:31 pm

I am hesitant on gel-filled mounts in terms of longevity - they will probably age out rather than wear out. Do you know what the casing is made of? EPDM, etc?

The breather grommets are available from most outlets, but they don't last. They are rock-hard within a few months and start leaking air pretty quickly. The separator's base isn't barbed, either, which means as soon as the rubber gets hard it rocks around and loses its seal. It's really annoying! I'm not truly sure how important that separator really is - the baffling inside the Ranger VC seems like it'll do the same job without any point of failure, and that's attractive. Even if it means swapping a "fancy" 2.3 Turbo VC for a budget-minded stamped steel part. :) If push came to shove, an external separator could work, too. (I secretly hope that improving PCV function will alleviate the oil leak! :) )

Edit: After the OP, I realized that I'm 99% sure my car has the original c1985 engine, which means replacing the front main seal means replacing the oil pan gasket, so there's that... :|

The amount of work entailed is a bummer, but for all I know those seals are 24 years old and 300,000 miles old, so it's hard to be mad.

Ed Lijewski
Level 8
Posts: 7142
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:53 pm
Location: The Belly of The Beast

Re: Motor mounts + Timing Belt + valve cover compatibility

Post by Ed Lijewski » Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:16 am

I installed one of the two new Motorcraft breather grommets, I bought at a dealership, several.years ago now, It still nicely snugs up the VC breather tube.

The new Rapido isolators look outwardly identical to my OEM Ford units; no idea re what they are composed of.

YMMV
Descartes: "Cogito Ergo Sum"
Lijewski: "Sum Ergo Drive-O. Mucho!

my8950
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 754
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:07 pm
Location: Detroit

Re: Motor mounts + Timing Belt + valve cover compatibility

Post by my8950 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:23 pm

Curious about front motor mounts as well...I'm sure I need to do this on both of my cars, but it's a big pain in the butt...

Ed Lijewski
Level 8
Posts: 7142
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:53 pm
Location: The Belly of The Beast

Re: Motor mounts + Timing Belt + valve cover compatibility

Post by Ed Lijewski » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:28 pm

Not a PITA job. First time, yeah (I've done it 4-5 times). But nothing complex is involved.

YMMV
Descartes: "Cogito Ergo Sum"
Lijewski: "Sum Ergo Drive-O. Mucho!

User avatar
John Brennan
Level 8
Posts: 11506
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 4:19 pm
Location: Scottsdale, AZ "Summer Is Coming"

Re: Motor mounts + Timing Belt + valve cover compatibility

Post by John Brennan » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:29 am

Ed Lijewski wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:28 pm
Not a PITA job. First time, yeah (I've done it 4-5 times). But nothing complex is involved.
Completely agree, have done it a couple of times; ramps, a floor jack, a wood block, and a basic ratchet set are all you need.

Would advise checking the drive shaft alignment/runout once you've done it.
This is my car, and these are my people!
1989 XR4Ti 5-Speed
2001 BMW Z3 3.0 5-Speed
2015 Fiesta ST 6-Speed
2015 Edge 3.5 V6 Auto/Paddles

thesameguy
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1991
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Motor mounts + Timing Belt + valve cover compatibility

Post by thesameguy » Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:54 pm

Yeah, I am not worried about the mounts. I am not looking forward to the pan, however.

New Felpro gasket came in today, so I'm gonna try to put that Ranger valve cover on and see if it fits.

While I am at it, does anyone know if there is an aftermarket NON adjustable cam sprocket for a round tooth timing belt? I would like to avoid going back to the junkyard for a while. :) All the round tooth retrofit kits I have seen include an adjustable sprocket. I just don't want to earn the ire of the smog guys, and years ago I hacked off the top half of the timing belt cover so the sprocket is the first thing you see when you open the hood....

I like how every project on this car turns into $1000 for me. Really happy before I got into XRs I got into counterfeiting Bill's. It's really worked out!

my8950
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 754
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:07 pm
Location: Detroit

Re: Motor mounts + Timing Belt + valve cover compatibility

Post by my8950 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:07 pm

I've got a set of round pullies from a 92 Mustang.
Those are plentiful in yards, I had the whole car for a while to pick from.

thesameguy
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1991
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Motor mounts + Timing Belt + valve cover compatibility

Post by thesameguy » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:18 pm

Yeah, finding them isn't the issue... it's the time it takes to do it!

john keefe
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:13 pm

Re: Motor mounts + Timing Belt + valve cover compatibility

Post by john keefe » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:21 pm

When you realign the DS, just tape on a lazer pencil firmly on the DS, and make a paper gauge to reference and stick it one the tail shaft, or refer to the guibo. Alignment is when you get the same distance of the spot beam on the paper (or other) from center all the way around.

User avatar
John Brennan
Level 8
Posts: 11506
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 4:19 pm
Location: Scottsdale, AZ "Summer Is Coming"

Re: Motor mounts + Timing Belt + valve cover compatibility

Post by John Brennan » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:36 am

thesameguy wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:54 pm
Yeah, I am not worried about the mounts. I am not looking forward to the pan, however.

New Felpro gasket came in today, so I'm gonna try to put that Ranger valve cover on and see if it fits.

While I am at it, does anyone know if there is an aftermarket NON adjustable cam sprocket for a round tooth timing belt? I would like to avoid going back to the junkyard for a while. :) All the round tooth retrofit kits I have seen include an adjustable sprocket. I just don't want to earn the ire of the smog guys, and years ago I hacked off the top half of the timing belt cover so the sprocket is the first thing you see when you open the hood...
Keep the adjustable sprocket; it may come in handy. Replace the timing belt cover-=- cheap, and easy.
This is my car, and these are my people!
1989 XR4Ti 5-Speed
2001 BMW Z3 3.0 5-Speed
2015 Fiesta ST 6-Speed
2015 Edge 3.5 V6 Auto/Paddles

thesameguy
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1991
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Motor mounts + Timing Belt + valve cover compatibility

Post by thesameguy » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:42 am

After gathering parts, I realized the flaw in Step 1 … the Ranger valve cover's PCV nipple points directly into the intake plumbing, making it useless. I'd need to switch to a rotated upper to make that work. I *would* like to switch to a rotated upper, but that's a project for another time (EGR is a PITA!) so I cancelled the Ranger VC.

I made a hasty backup plan, that started when I found that an '80s GM PCV elbow fits WAY BETTER into the grommet on the VC than the factory piece. So I assembled some aluminum fittings (Fragola, Earl's, etc.) and am working on that. I have a backup plan, which is to WELD a 1/2" NPT bung onto the valve cover and ditch the grommet completely, but I'm kinda hoping to not do that right now. :)

Anywho, I've got a functional install but it's a bit clumsy so I'm looking for a female 1/2" NPT -> -8 AN male adapter. :)

Because I don't have anything way more important to do (that's dripping sarcasm) I'm thinking about pulling the whole motor out and doing the timing belt & oil pan & motor mounts that way. I'm not sure it's less work, but it's less work underneath a car, and that's attractive. The engine bay on this car is in great shape - I think pulling the engine would not be that bad. I would expect zero breakage and no struggles.

thesameguy
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1991
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Motor mounts + Timing Belt + valve cover compatibility

Post by thesameguy » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:25 pm

I did not like the way everything looked retaining the grommet, so I am welding in a 1/2" NPT bung to the top of the VC. There will be an NPT to AN adapter at each end, and an -8 AN hose between them. NO MORE GROMMET!

Seems like eventually I always get to the right solution, and with each solution "I should have just done this years ago." T5, AL DS, Cosworth IC, ball bearing turbo, exhaust head shield, Konis. So much time I've wasted! :D

Which leads me to my current thought process... pull the motor... replace the oil pan gasket, replace the motor mounts, install a rotated upper, install a late 2.3 serpentine belt system & accessory brackets, install round tooth timing belt. When? WHO KNOWS. But I think it's about time to start collecting parts.

my8950
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 754
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:07 pm
Location: Detroit

Re: Motor mounts + Timing Belt + valve cover compatibility

Post by my8950 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:34 pm

thesameguy wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:25 pm
I did not like the way everything looked retaining the grommet, so I am welding in a 1/2" NPT bung to the top of the VC. There will be an NPT to AN adapter at each end, and an -8 AN hose between them. NO MORE GROMMET!

Seems like eventually I always get to the right solution, and with each solution "I should have just done this years ago." T5, AL DS, Cosworth IC, ball bearing turbo, exhaust head shield, Konis. So much time I've wasted! :D

Which leads me to my current thought process... pull the motor... replace the oil pan gasket, replace the motor mounts, install a rotated upper, install a late 2.3 serpentine belt system & accessory brackets, install round tooth timing belt. When? WHO KNOWS. But I think it's about time to start collecting parts.
Tangent...Curious how you are going serpentine?

Post Reply