New DD and trying to decide what direction with my XR.

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reddy2300
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Re: New DD and trying to decide what direction with my XR.

Post by reddy2300 » Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:45 am

zxr250cc wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:17 pm
I thought about the 24 valved DOHC 3.0 liter Taurus motor...
Too complicated. I want "dead nuts simple" and easy. (Like me.)

As John mentioned, there is a ton of aftermarket support for the 5.0. My existing fuel system will work. I can hook up 3 or 4 wires to a "Mustang" harness and have it operational. I already have mounts and exhaust system for the 5.0, as well. A T5 bolts right up and we have plenty of T5/Merkur swaps out in the world.
1987 5-speed XR4ti-70K mile "barn find", Rosso Red, Grant wheel, short throw shifter, PE/big VAM, 255lph pump, 3" Stinger/Magnaflow exhaust, MD "shorty" radiator/IC, fake BBS wheels, Koni Yellows, Rapido sway bars, poly/aluminum bushes, Gillis valve, Eurolights,

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Re: New DD and trying to decide what direction with my XR.

Post by john keefe » Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:45 pm

Mine is "road-going" and smog legal, as these versions of the AFR heads have the exhaust "tube" and port to retain the stock cross-over EGR piping.

If you're going to go with the basic, iron-head 5.0L swap, at least relocate the battery to the right-rear trunk corner. Not only takes weight off the front, it evens out driver-weight in the car. Do a little porting cleanup on the heads and that will improve air flow significantly without effecting smog. Up-rate the front spring rates on good struts. Full-size spare will help too.

Change the whole front to '92-'94 short water pump and brackets. You'll gain at least 2-3" of clearance to the radiator. I'd still swap to a Walbro, 255lbs fuel pump, and BBK shorty tubular headers (with smog-exempt stamping, if you are concerned about smog-visual).

I had also looked at the more modern 4.6L and 5.2L "mod" motor options. But, finding a good twin-cam 5.2L from a Cobra was expensive (at that time), and those had issues with a couple recalls on the valve-train. The 4.6L SOHC were prone to seizing the spark plugs in the AL heads... even after only 20K miles. You could ruin a head trying to get one or more of those un-stuck (more $$$ to replace), and there wasn't the same aftermarket back then. Guys still had that problem with new heads and lots of anti-seize compound; probably something about uneven expansion/contraction rates within the architecture of the deep recess for the plugs. Those blocks were good, but not a lot of room to play with bore/stroke. The newer 5.0Ls are a completely different story, just huge.

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reddy2300
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Re: New DD and trying to decide what direction with my XR.

Post by reddy2300 » Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:27 pm

I was referring to you building a car/engine for racing and just transferred that thinking to your 5.0 build. After I read it a couple of times, I realized that what you build is pretty much what I'd build.

We don't have smog here in Columbus Ohio. I believe that Dayton and Cleveland area counties have let smog fall by the wayside as most "smogable" cars have likely rotted into the road salt that we use here in the winter. Not worth the few cars that have been well taken care of and not driven in the winter to run smog checks.

I do plan to use aluminum heads. I'd also probably check into a dry cell battery and leave it in the front, as they're significantly lighter. (I don't want a battery in the back.) I already have the Walbro in the tank.

Thank you for all of your input! This didn't make the decision simpler. Lol.
1987 5-speed XR4ti-70K mile "barn find", Rosso Red, Grant wheel, short throw shifter, PE/big VAM, 255lph pump, 3" Stinger/Magnaflow exhaust, MD "shorty" radiator/IC, fake BBS wheels, Koni Yellows, Rapido sway bars, poly/aluminum bushes, Gillis valve, Eurolights,

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Re: New DD and trying to decide what direction with my XR.

Post by john keefe » Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:24 pm

reddy2300 wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:27 pm
We don't have smog here in Columbus Ohio. I believe that Dayton and Cleveland area counties have let smog fall by the wayside as most "smogable" cars have likely rotted into the road salt that we use here in the winter. Not worth the few cars that have been well taken care of and not driven in the winter to run smog checks.
If only, out here in CA. Not that I'd want all smog testing to disappear, but out here a 30+ yr. old car is far more likely to have been very well maintained. They used to have a 40 year rolling exemption, like in 2004 a 1974 vehicle would become exempt. They halted it for a couple years, and I'm not up to date on whether that rolling has renewed.

The legislature found a loophole for taxing cars. You couldn't penalize people for registration cost, so they upped a bunch of other taxes and license fees. In the last 2 years, my registration costs for the '87 XR, and the '88 Scorpio have gone up 200%. Used to be $70, now they're both over $155. My 2013 F150 has gone up in registration cost, not down each year since new.

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Re: New DD and trying to decide what direction with my XR.

Post by DAReese » Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:36 pm

reddy2300 wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:36 pm
R Code wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:01 pm
reddy2300 wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:38 am
I've always told people that my goal is to build the car the way Ford SHOULD have built it in the first place.
I'm in the same demographic (53 here), and get what you're saying.

Your statement above probably means different things to different people, because (worldwide) Ford built Sierras in so many variants. I like the platform, and it has & does lend itself to many cool powerplants. Guys that grew up in the UK probably dream about Cossies or the 2.9 v6.
The basic recipe that Ford missed, as I see it, is that it should have come with disc brakes all the way around, an intercooler and a bit more power, improved suspension over what it got. It should have been offered with a V8. It should have gotten 16" wheels. It should have gotten better headlights.

I understand that some of these things weren't possible in 1987 but, were not in 1987 any more, Toto.
Disc brakes, intercooler, and improved suspension were all possible at the time. Headlights were limited by the bulbs approved to use in the US.
David Reese

88 XR4Ti - mono white T5, someday to be bi wing
89 Scorpio - waiting on some parts before it hits the road again
88 XR4Ti - mono red C3, parts car
used to own 86 dark blue traded in on a min van, what was I thinking?

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John Brennan
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Re: New DD and trying to decide what direction with my XR.

Post by John Brennan » Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:09 pm

john keefe wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:52 pm
zxr250cc wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:17 pm
I thought about the 24 valved DOHC 3.0 liter Taurus motor...
Yes, very good motor. Problem out here in CA is it's a transverse FWD. Don't know what the swap regs are lately, but back a few years one of the swap qualifiers is that the donor had to be come from the same layout. Their reasoning is that you couldn't get the same gearing and diff ratios as the FWD using a longitudinal setup. It might pass an idle smog test, but the different gearing would affect smog at RPMs/rolling speeds. You'd have to be pretty friendly with a smog ref to persuade him you've got the exact matching tranny gearing and diff ratio as the FWD setup. Don't know how you'd "prove it" without opening up both for him to verify. I doubt any would have that kind of time, but I doubt you'd even get that far.
FWIW, The engine came longitudinally mounted in the Lincoln LS and "Jaguar" S-Type. Kits exist for those who swap these into other cars. I realize you're set on the 5.0, but just putting that out there, as the configuration was mentioned as an issue.
This is my car, and these are my people!
1989 XR4Ti 5-Speed
2001 BMW Z3 3.0 5-Speed
2015 Fiesta ST 6-Speed
2015 Edge 3.5 V6 Auto/Paddles

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Re: New DD and trying to decide what direction with my XR.

Post by john keefe » Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:41 pm

Didn't realize it was the same V6 as the Taurus. I was seriously looking at the possibility of the Lincoln LS setup for my Scorpio, and wrote about it in another topic. Still would be interested, though I rebuilt the A4LD and the car's running fine. Not a lot of punch, but fine. Too many other projects, and at this point, if it ain't broke...

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Re: New DD and trying to decide what direction with my XR.

Post by John Brennan » Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:37 pm

Yeah, and some of us have seen (and drooled over) the single-turbo version Godfrey put into his XR-- and lest we forget, a twin-turbo version was used to great effect in the Noble M12. I've always liked its light weight, compactness, displacement, and general DOHC goodness.
This is my car, and these are my people!
1989 XR4Ti 5-Speed
2001 BMW Z3 3.0 5-Speed
2015 Fiesta ST 6-Speed
2015 Edge 3.5 V6 Auto/Paddles

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Re: New DD and trying to decide what direction with my XR.

Post by john keefe » Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:44 pm

Noble... Ha! Nigel built a couple for customers, and loved that combo. Wasn't it Top Gear (Richard Hammond) which had a track day for several supercars, and the Noble came out on top?

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Re: New DD and trying to decide what direction with my XR.

Post by andyofcolumbusmerkur » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:51 pm

I remember looking at those for sale in Columbus (on High Street) and I saw the v6 and was like huh? I thought it was a supercharged v6 Mustang engine back then (not a duratec) and later the Volvo V8 twin turbo V8 on the Top Gear episodes. Cool cars, and almost as fast as the Ultima with the dare I say it LS6 in there.
"I'll take mine sans touchscreen, sans Alexia startup capabilities, sans start stop, sans control a bunch of stuff while I am on my smartphone while also in a hot air balloon."

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Re: New DD and trying to decide what direction with my XR.

Post by reddy2300 » Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:34 pm

andyofcolumbusmerkur wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:51 pm
I remember looking at those for sale in Columbus (on High Street) and I saw the v6 and was like huh? I thought it was a supercharged v6 Mustang engine back then (not a duratec) and later the Volvo V8 twin turbo V8 on the Top Gear episodes. Cool cars, and almost as fast as the Ultima with the dare I say it LS6 in there.
Where on High Street were they for sale?! I don't remember them being sold in C'bus at all.
1987 5-speed XR4ti-70K mile "barn find", Rosso Red, Grant wheel, short throw shifter, PE/big VAM, 255lph pump, 3" Stinger/Magnaflow exhaust, MD "shorty" radiator/IC, fake BBS wheels, Koni Yellows, Rapido sway bars, poly/aluminum bushes, Gillis valve, Eurolights,

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Re: New DD and trying to decide what direction with my XR.

Post by andyofcolumbusmerkur » Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:13 pm

Going N on High and after you pass Lane ave (or championship way or whatever), on the right hand side. I thought it was lambo kit cars or something, and stopped in. I think 3 turn key cars were there and could have been part of the used car dealer next to it. When I got up to the cars I realized how tiny they were like a lotus elise or exige sized it seemed. Seemed like a V8 wouldn't have even fit in them.
"I'll take mine sans touchscreen, sans Alexia startup capabilities, sans start stop, sans control a bunch of stuff while I am on my smartphone while also in a hot air balloon."

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Re: New DD and trying to decide what direction with my XR.

Post by andyofcolumbusmerkur » Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:16 pm

I lived on 14th and also waldeck. But it was when "2's" and "Notal's" was in operation so a little while ago.
"I'll take mine sans touchscreen, sans Alexia startup capabilities, sans start stop, sans control a bunch of stuff while I am on my smartphone while also in a hot air balloon."

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Re: New DD and trying to decide what direction with my XR.

Post by thewhitething » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:02 am

reddy2300 wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:45 am
zxr250cc wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:17 pm
I thought about the 24 valved DOHC 3.0 liter Taurus motor...
Too complicated. I want "dead nuts simple" and easy. (Like me.)

As John mentioned, there is a ton of aftermarket support for the 5.0. My existing fuel system will work. I can hook up 3 or 4 wires to a "Mustang" harness and have it operational. I already have mounts and exhaust system for the 5.0, as well. A T5 bolts right up and we have plenty of T5/Merkur swaps out in the world.
Can you post detailed pictures of the motor mounts for the 5.0 setup?

I've been trying to source a set for about a year with no success.
- Jake
1986 XR4ti Project "The White Thing"
1989 Mustang GT "The Original Daily Driver"
1993 SVT Lightning "5 speed swapped"

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Re: New DD and trying to decide what direction with my XR.

Post by reddy2300 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:05 pm

I'll have to see if I can get some pics. I sold the only set I had left a few years ago. Recently got the bug again and lucked into a set.
1987 5-speed XR4ti-70K mile "barn find", Rosso Red, Grant wheel, short throw shifter, PE/big VAM, 255lph pump, 3" Stinger/Magnaflow exhaust, MD "shorty" radiator/IC, fake BBS wheels, Koni Yellows, Rapido sway bars, poly/aluminum bushes, Gillis valve, Eurolights,

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