Awesome. A new noise!

XR4Ti / Sierra / Sierra Cosworth Discussions - Questions, problem resolution, general talk, technical tips and modifications.
Post Reply
Merkur Club web site
thesameguy
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 2625
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Awesome. A new noise!

Post by thesameguy »

Oh, I didn't take photos but this morning I knocked the ring gear off the diff... hosed it down with penetrating oil, removed the bolts, tapped it off with a brass drift. No struggle there, no force needed... just a few minutes spent tapping in a circle til it fell off.

I boxed up the adjusters / bearing carriers and am about to PayPal mc2 some cash.

Next, I gotta go find a transmission.
thesameguy
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 2625
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Awesome. A new noise!

Post by thesameguy »

Got my customized driveshaft back from Driveline Service... the ended up just replacing the whole tube so it looks great:

Image

New u-joints, new diff yoke, and ~20mm longer than it was. The PTI yoke works great:

Image

And I've got the ~18mm I need to install the MDL late T5 spacer:

Image

No more Haulsee adapter!

FWIW, this solution cost $350 - that's $150 to PTI and $200 to Driveline Service. IIRC the Haulsee adapter was $150. Not a HUGE price premium for a totally custom fit. What I'm wondering now is what it would cost to just fab this MFer from off the shelf parts rather than start with a Ford aluminum driveshaft.... the 3" (? - IIRC) 1330 u-joint ends are not expensive, and the aluminum tube was only $100. Hmmmm.

Anywho, now I just gotta get the cash together to order up a Sachs clutch kit from rockauto...
my8950
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1643
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:07 pm
Location: Detroit

Re: Awesome. A new noise!

Post by my8950 »

So this originally was an aluminum Mustang D/S? All that was really used from the original was the input shaft stub? Since it's a one piece, you're not concerned with the vibration issues from going two to one piece? I am in a similar situation now as I need to have one made, the car will have a V8 T5 initially, and I have a Supra diff installed, so I need to fill the void. I'm trying to determine which way to go, so all the info in your post is helpful to me. Thanks!
thesameguy
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 2625
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Awesome. A new noise!

Post by thesameguy »

Yeah, it was originally a Ford Motorsports aluminum driveshaft for a Fox body. The shop:

1. Reused both tube yokes (the things the u-joints attach to)
2. Replaced the tube between them with literally scrap tube*
3. Installed new u-joints at each end
4. Re-used the slip yoke that goes into the transmission
5. Installed the PTI diff yoke that I supplied.

* Apparently aluminum driveshafts are common enough now they have old cores just laying around all over the place. :)

I have been using the FMS driveshaft since I did the T5 swap originally - 2006 or 2007? There is *slight* vibration - like buzzy motor mount vibration. There is basically no runout on the driveshaft and both front and rear angles are good. It doesn't feel any different than my buddy's new-to-him SVO and it's never gotten in my way. Less weight, no guibo to fail … I'll take a little buzzy any day. It pretty loud from a 3" exhaust and has race springs on it so I'm not exactly going for comfort. :D
thesameguy
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 2625
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Awesome. A new noise!

Post by thesameguy »

Here's some more photos!

This is the LSD as received from mc2 - offset bearings pressed on, mostly ready for installation:

Image

After further cleaning, I found the Left stub shaft to be a bit pitted. The seal surface looks okay, and mc2 thinks it'll be okay, so I'm hoping it's ok:

Image

The Right looks great. No doubt this is a result of my crappy prep on a diff that's sat for over ten years. :(

Here's what the shafts look like installed in the diff... I was interested to see what internal clearances look like:

Image

You can see on the right side the gap where mc2's .250" spacer goes.

Here's a closer-up of the inside:

Image

You can see the right side has easy access to the c-clip, but the left side is quite inaccessible. This is why they recommend buying an external circlip.

Here's an even closer-up of that detail:

Image

I was thinking about using a spring clip here. I think doing so would require deepening the groove on the stud shaft so the clip would have something to spring into. I'm not sure I have the mech-e chops to make that call, but it'll be a few weeks til I've got a gearbox so I have time to think about it.

Here's a thing I thought weird about the ring gear:

Image

I wonder if they're all marked like this, or whether this diff was rebuilt or something at some point. Anybody know?
my8950
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1643
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:07 pm
Location: Detroit

Re: Awesome. A new noise!

Post by my8950 »

The ring gear I looked at the other day has the ratio stamped into it, as well and other numbers.
Attachments
IMG_8877.jpg
IMG_8877.jpg (81.89 KiB) Viewed 4692 times
thesameguy
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 2625
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Awesome. A new noise!

Post by thesameguy »

WRT to the stub axle picture above, I asked mc2 whether the shim tape would fix the issue, and Mr. Grayson reiterated "shim tape works, but I'd rather machine an adapter ring." That to me sounds like a polite warning not to slit your own throat. :)

mc2 says the stubs are 1.182" diameter... I measured 1.177" but that's pretty darned close.
mc2 says the diff expects 1.254" diameter... I measured 1.251" so maybe my caliper is off a bit. :)

Anywho, I have a few weeks before I'll be able to pick up the transmission, so I think I will probably take mc2's advice and see about having a ~.072" adapter made. I also wonder if Timken (or someone else) makes a Redi-Sleeve that would fit the need. Because having an OTS option would be nice. :) That seems really thick for a such a device, but nothing ventured nothing gained, right? :D
thesameguy
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 2625
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Awesome. A new noise!

Post by thesameguy »

my8950 wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:20 pm The ring gear I looked at the other day has the ratio stamped into it, as well and other numbers.
Interesting... the one pictured is from a VERY early 1985 car... I wonder if it was just before Ford got their act together?
thesameguy
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 2625
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Awesome. A new noise!

Post by thesameguy »

Just so I don't forget, it looks like 1" x 5/32" (.15625") wall is the commonly available DOM tube I could start with to make the "adapter" for stub shaft to diff. If my math is correct, that's 1.3125" OD (ID + 2 walls, amirite?)

machine 1" out to 1.177/1.182
machine 1.3125" down to 1.251/1.254

Sounds painstaking. Hopefully the local fancy machine shop can help. :P
thesameguy
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 2625
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Awesome. A new noise!

Post by thesameguy »

Talked to the fancy machine shop today, 100% ready to get shot down. Dude was interested in the project and happy to do the work... but is backlogged for two weeks so it'll be a while before it's done... but it will be done right so that's worth waiting for

I had anticipated an adapter to increase the OD, but after explaining the project the recommendation came back to weld the shaft up then machine it back down. Sounds good to me!
my8950
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1643
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:07 pm
Location: Detroit

Re: Awesome. A new noise!

Post by my8950 »

thesameguy wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:48 am Just so I don't forget, it looks like 1" x 5/32" (.15625") wall is the commonly available DOM tube I could start with to make the "adapter" for stub shaft to diff. If my math is correct, that's 1.3125" OD (ID + 2 walls, amirite?)

machine 1" out to 1.177/1.182
machine 1.3125" down to 1.251/1.254

Sounds painstaking. Hopefully the local fancy machine shop can help. :P
This is for the adapter ring, or spacer for the stub shaft? I feel like I missed a step.
thesameguy
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 2625
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Awesome. A new noise!

Post by thesameguy »

"Adapter ring" … the stub axles need bigger OD to properly sit in the diff. mc2's easy button (which they supply) is shim tape to make up the difference, but that's a last resort for me.

A "spacer" is also needed on one side … this is also supplied by mc2.

Since I'm going to have Hansen work on the stub axle OD (in lieu of shim tape), I'm going to see if he can also build in that spacer (in lieu of the mc2 spacer) at the same time. I guess that means some wasted money, but having never seen any of these before it's nice to see one approach, nice to have all the pieces in front of me.

The big debate I'm having right now is whether I should have the machinist do two sets of axles... either so I have a spare set or so I have parts for if/when I finally, someday, build the track car. Obviously it'll need an LSD too. :D
thesameguy
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 2625
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Awesome. A new noise!

Post by thesameguy »

Turns out to be quite easy to get the diff out, once axles and drive shaft are already gone... :)

Image
User avatar
andyofcolumbusmerkur
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1855
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:58 pm
Location: NE Ohio

Re: Awesome. A new noise!

Post by andyofcolumbusmerkur »

I hope you are not jacking up the vehicle at the rear diff, since there's an aluminum rear diff mount installed. I was told never to do this.
The best way to keep your Kia from being stolen is to not have a Kia.
thesameguy
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 2625
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Awesome. A new noise!

Post by thesameguy »

It would not make a great deal of sense to jack the car up by the part you're trying to remove...

The car is on jackstands... A transmission jack is supporting the diff so it doesn't fall to the ground since it's unbolted from the beam.
Post Reply