$400 Key Fob???!!!

[andyofcolumbusmerkur]

If you could disable that weird anti-theft feature you were talking about then you could just use the key or the key pad on the door. I'm thinking it was designed this way to keep someone from stealing a flex if it was in long term parking or someplace like that. They could pick the lock or use a special rake tool to get inside. But if you only have a very short time to start the car it would make it really hard to swap out the computer or run the car off a laptop or something. If the battery in the fob dies you can get into your car and start it to get home. But I can't believe there's no chip in the key. Which makes me think getting the fob off ebay and watching a couple youtube videos is not going to solve your problem. Still worth a try let us know if it works.

[andyofcolumbusmerkur]

You may need an automotive locksmith that can cut the key, program the virgin rfid chip in the brand new key, and also do the steps in the videos to make the whole thing function.

[john keefe]

You kinda' lost me there, Andy, on the no-chip-in-key, and having the locksmith program the key. I thought the initial programing to link a new key to starting the ignition was to simply install the (cut) replacement key in the ignition within 5 secs of doing a KOEO rotation with a working key? Once I do that, then it's just the 8-times switch on and off to KOEO and the new key is coded to the locks and alarm. Or, am I missing something?

Hopefully, I'll have the keys in a couple days, get them cut, and let you guys know what happens. $30 for 2 is >>>>>>> $400+ for one.

[DAReese]

If your key is like the one in the link the fcc # is CWTWB1U793
So any button will work if it has that number on it. It's like a garage door opener or something. When my aftermarket car alarm fob started giving me problems I had to order one that was crimestopper. The whole box of key fobs from pull a part were other brands, and the tiny tiny numbers on them were different than mine. I tried anyway but the toyota one wouldn't program (talk) to the alarm and neither would any of the other aftermarket style alarm fobs. It's because they each have their own fcc id. So if you had a car with a remote button separate from the key, you could simply get another one just like it and it will have that correct number. So you don't unlock the dozen or so Fords in the parking lot when you press the button it is programmed to the car. It's really easy to do. I had to follow the car alarm instructions, holding down the hidden button and waiting for it to beep 3 times or whatever. Then you press the fob and the alarm accepts this fob. I think I could add up to 4 fobs. Then you exit the programming mode and test it to see if you screwed up. You may be doing some odd things like sticking the key in and out 10 times and using your turn signals. This is so you don't accidentally enter programming mode under normal use. You may have to try a couple times but it's no worse than clearing a maintenance light on the dash or whatever. So you could take the battery out of yours and just use it like a key, then have a fob attached to the key ring. If you buy the whole piece like in your link you have some more steps. The key needs to be cut obviously but also there is a rfid chip inside it that has to match the cars computer or it will not start. That's why I used the "box a key method" on my Honda. The dealer can make a correct long lasting quality key with their stuff using your vin. I'm sure some people in russia can also. Also a store like ACE can cut a key and also clone it, so your car never knew anything had changed, but I hear the battery will not last and you may have more problems a few years down the road. A locksmith guy in Akron told me his chip keys cost about the same as ACE but last at least as long as the oem key.

A-AbraCadbra? They even still have the machine to cut Scorpio keys.

[reddy2300]

Yeah, seems like quite a bit of misinformation here.

If you could just "insert the key and cycle it 8 times"...what would keep a car thief from simply reprogramming a key that they made and stealing your car? Think about it.

The reason the second key is "only" $200 is because they are programming the key from the Ford service diagnostic equipment and it doesn't cost any more "labor" time to program the second one. It's likely that the PARTS for the key are $200. They not charging any labor for the second key.

As far as cost, dealerships don't set the prices for parts OR programming. They are made a little more expensive than you'd expect to keep car thieves from having keys made and going to steal a car. (Like in the movie 'Gone In 60 Seconds'. That doesn't happen.) There's also a process involved that requires proof of ownership and ability to authorize a new key being made.

These keys have transponders inside of them. Even ones without buttons have them. It's a tiny little iron core with a coil around it. Fit's into what looks like a "regular" key. And it still needs programmed.

[john keefe]

If you could just "insert the key and cycle it 8 times"...what would keep a car thief from simply reprogramming a key that they made and stealing your car? Think about it.

I have. It takes a programmed, valid key to first switch the ignition to KOEO, then you have 5 seconds to insert a new "blank" key to program it for STARTING. You do the 8-clicks to program the transponder for the DOOR LOCKS and ALARM. See above. A thief would have no need, nor time to program a blank key, unless he first had the original, programmed key, and if he had one, he wouldn't sit around trying to program a second. Not my system, but what Ford came up with.

It's actually written in my Owner's Manual, although having read it again, you have to turn the ignition on first, then off, and then you have 10 seconds to do the same with the "blank" key. I guess I'll have to read up on my Wife's Flex manual to see if it gives a complete reprogramming guide for ignition and alarms.

No doubt all the dealers have their own "coding" machine for the new keys, and I assume they had them in 2013 when I bought my F150. But that's what the Ford tech did in my F150, when they "made" me a third key when I bought the truck. He cut the key first, then got in the truck. I asked him if that's all I had to do if I ever needed another one, and he said yes, but I'd have to get the correct blank key from Ford specifically for an F150. I assume there's different chips for different models, but its a dealership so who knows what's BS.

[andyofcolumbusmerkur]

Yep Reese A-AbraCadbra

[andyofcolumbusmerkur]

This site talks about the older basic "chip key", the Ford PATS system, and the transponder keys. Still doesn't help very much if the car thief has a rollback or flatbed.
https://www.popalock.com/franchise/char ... y-systems/

[john keefe]

Still doesn't help very much if the car thief has a rollback or flatbed.

And then somebody has to throw water on the fire. Thanks, Andy. Just as we were starting to feel secure about going out in our cars again...

[taylor0987]

If you end up having a problem using the two working keys to program your other ones according to the owner's manual instructions, you can always use Forscan to program new ones.
https://ohptools.com/blogs/news/how-to- ... ng-forscan
My coworker and I used it to program keys on his F150 when one of them was lost. He bought the other key from Amazon or an eBay seller and had it cut at a hardware store.

(If you had bought a key with the extra button, you may have been able to use Forscan to enable remote start on it...)

[john keefe]

Worked like a charm! Found an older locksmith shop to cut the new keys, who also happened to be the only shop that other locksmiths around here knew had the Tibbe cutting machine for my Scorpio spares. $10 each to cut the new Flex's keys.

Couple of tips. First, you need two working keys in order to reprogram a third or more. One key alone won't do it, in which case you have to go through the whole dealer's reprogramming protocol, or have a locksmith wipe out the program keys and start over (from a good/knowledgeable locksmith). Both expensive, though the locksmith's rate would have been $90 vs. the dealer's $250+.

My Flex Owners Manual read that you have to start the car with each key before inserting the spare, but the locksmith said just do the KOEO (which worked). Had to go through the same routine for both new keys (rather than just inserting the second new key right after programming the first).

Second, the doors will lock/unlock one time when the coding of the new key to the ignition is complete, but you still have to code the keys to the door locks and alarm. So, this is the 8-KOEO sequence. After the 8th cycle, the doors will lock/unlock, and the key (should) be coded to the locks an alarm. Once one key is coded and as long as it's still in the ignition, you can press the lock/unlock buttons on other "ignition-coded" keys and those should be then coded too, as they would all be the same FCC frequency.

The problem I ran into is that it wouldn't code the second new key for the locks. Even after doing the 8-KOEO steps, it would do the lock/unlock sequence while the key was in the ignition, but wouldn't work once the second key was removed from the ignition.

Finally traced the issue to one-too-many keys. Although the manual says you can have up to 4 full "working" keys (plus 4 more ignition-only), it didn't like having a fourth. I took the battery out of the really bad OEM key, let the new key cycle its "on-off" a couple times before taking it out, and it works fine.

The Tibbe keys were quite a bit more expensive. The 30+ year old key was really worn down, but the old guy had the first cut perfect. Just FYI, Jags Tibbe keys had 3 cut angles, Ford used 4 angles. Once we tested the new key in the locks and ignition, that verified the Ford code, and he cut a second spare pretty quickly. Worth the extra cost to have 3 keys now, one to be in a hide-a-key on the car. And, I've got the Ford code for future reference.

[andyofcolumbusmerkur]

Glad it worked for you. What happens if you are out and about one day and the battery in the fob dies? Can you open the door with just the keypad on the door to enter the vehicle and then start the car? On my Moms Subaru there is a tiny key that can be used to open the door, then you must place the fob inside the little cubby hole and press the start button. It reads the chip even though the proximity sensor can't detect anything no matter how close you get to the car, hence the little emergency key inside the fob.

[john keefe]

Yes, just use the keypad, then your key to start the car. But, if you open the door mechanically with the key, you have to start the ignition within 10secs, or it disables the ignition.

I think the ignition doesn't work off the fob battery, but probably sends a current through the key itself to "read" the return current from the key's chip. Like my F150, the key itself has its own chip; I've got 3 keys and none have a fob. Sounds like the Subaru is designed with some extra security steps, but I think I've also seen newer Ford styles with the detachable metal portion.

[milehighXR]

My 2014 Fiesta is the same way. Both fobkeys(fob and key are one unit, remove electronic bit to replace battery) are intermittent at best. I think Ford told me $350.00 to replace one. Thanks but no, thats an 1/8 of what the car is currently worth.

For giggles and grins I tried to start Fi without the electronic bits attached to the key, and no dice. So if you go to the beach, or somewhere else with water make sure the electronic bits are in a water proof bag, or locked inside the car, and keep the key bit on you. Thats what I do when we take the canoe out.

[brokencase]

The thing at the hardware store, that lights up when you put your key near it, just detects an rfid. So they can tell you if it is a chip key. The chip is really small and the key may just look like an ordinary key. I agree with you guys alarms going off or even just chirping is annoying. On my Mom's Subaru I was able to change the chirp to silent, so only the lights flash when you lock or unlock the car. You may be able to change other annoyances (like mentioned above) on the Flex. May be a sentence buried in the owners manual that talks about it.

Yea, well I am sure it made my key non-programable. Never going there again...