Ford Hybrid Battery Rip-off (long story)

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john keefe
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Ford Hybrid Battery Rip-off (long story)

Post by john keefe »

So, my 92 year old Mom, who's tough as nails and still active, had a battery problem with her 2008 Escape Hybrid. She took a fall, and wasn't able to drive for a few weeks. When we recently tried to start it up, got all the lights, IP, headlights, etc., but no start. I didn't have my code scanner, but it appeared the hybrid battery looked to be dead. Go the message, "Stop Safely Now." WTF, why didn't Ford design it to "fail safe" that allows you to drive safely for 40-50 miles on the gas engine, like other manufacturers?

I asked her to wait until I could come back with my code reader, and do a little research in a day or two, but she panicked and called her "trusty" Ford dealer to tow it in and figure it out.

First, its a small town, and that dealership is the only game, almost no independent garages. Second, they treat my Mom well, and she's loyal, but they don't have a sterling reputation. I got ahold of the service writer, and asked to be informed of what they found, and wanted the codes they pulled up on the machine. They came back in a couple hours with "dead hybrid battery." $9600 from Ford, + $650 labor. YIKES!!! :shock: :shock:

Here's where I began to be suspicious... they wouldn't give me the codes. I researched a bit, called a couple Ford guys at other dealerships I know who confirmed that's the going price, and they're starting to see this regularly. Seems they think it's not the mileage (only 81K for a 2008), but the years. BUT, you can find aftermarket, rebuilt, upgraded batteries with 1-3 year unlimited mileage warranties for around $3K, so I was resigned to that option.

Luckily, I called another great mechanic I've known for a while, and he told me BS, to take out a panel in the side of the dash, hook up a charger to the regular battery, press the button inside the panel, and it will bypass the regular battery, and charge the hybrid battery. Might take 5-6 recharge cycles for a really dead battery, but that's what you do. It's in the dealerships' official shop manuals, but not in the Owner's manual. That's one of the first things a shop's supposed to do after diagnosing a drained hybrid battery.

Had it towed home, hoping this would work, and but expecting to have to shell out a lot of $$$ for a rebuilt battery. Ha! It recharged after just one cycle. Car drives fine, and going strong for a week now. :D :D :D

When I checked out, they still wouldn't give me the codes they supposedly pulled. Said that's only available when you get a printed estimate/agreement to have them perform the work. Right. AFAIK, that's illegal. $233 to do a diagnostic, and not provide the codes? Yeah, I believe they actually put it up on a machine and did a thorough evaluation... NOT. Scumbags who have no qualms taking advantage of an elderly woman who's been loyally doing business with them for years.

The problem is that I want to report them to BAR, and give them a really nasty review in every outlet I can thing of, but Mom is afraid that they will try to retaliate or refuse to service her car the next time it needs it. Actually, I can't really blame her; literally, only game in a small town.

Funny thing was, as I was checking the Escape out before having it towed home, I noticed 3 new Mustang GT's up on jackstands, no wheels/tires. Another one up on stands with brand new, very expensive rims and tires. $2800 for a set. I asked the service writer what was up with that, and he said they just got hit with a midnight bargain shopper. At least they got security footage of the perps, right? No... only 80% clarity in the video so they can't make it out. Security guard, barbed-wire-topped fencing? No. And, according to him, not the first time they've been ripped off for hi-performance stuff. Luckily, of course, their insurance/Ford HQ reimburses for the theft. Gee... smells like inside-job to me, and it makes you wonder if the shady management is in on it.
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Re: Ford Hybrid Battery Rip-off (long story)

Post by thesameguy »

It's terrifying how often this kind of stuff happens. A few years ago a friend of mine had her XLR towed after it started pouring smoke out of the hood. She had it towed to a shop, who a couple days later said they would rebuild her motor for twelve grand. My first thought was, "Don't trust *anyone* who says they can rebuild a Northstar" so I sent her some contact info for a couple Northstar specialists. When a professionally rebuilt motor is $5k and install is another grand or two, what asshat pays a random twelve grand? The shop insisted that because it's an XLR it's important to keep the numbers matching. SERIOUSLY.

My second thought was "Why do they think it needs to be rebuilt?" So she asked them for codes. Nope, can't give those out. Asked them for compression & leakdown numbers. Nope, can't give those out. So she stiffed them on the $200 diagnostic and took it to a friend of mine who found a radiator hose had split, and it was going to be $87 to replace. Oh, and it had no signs of an overheat - good compression on all eight.

When the Von Housen group bought the Saab franchise from Niello locally and service went to $#!* and it was clear they couldn't be trusted, I learned to (approximately) fix my car myself.... because the alternative was to constantly get hosed by lazy or malicious mechanics. It was a good approach then, and it's a good approach now... so I guess your mom had better get wrenching. :D
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Re: Ford Hybrid Battery Rip-off (long story)

Post by john keefe »

Yeah, my Mom asked me, "Oh my, do you think they could have made this mistake with other people?" Uh, Mom, it ain't no mistake.

Not limited to automotives, either. Have an A/C unit that stopped working last Spring, not too old. I did some research, and had a good idea, but I used this one A/C company once on a project, so I called them to take a look at it. Their "expert" repair tech came out, asked a couple questions, then told me he didn't even need to do any tests... he saw these Bryant units do this many times, and one component was shot, but I'd have to upgrade the whole system, since new CA code compliant components were required. Told him thanks, but I'd keep doing some research. Turned out to be a $28 capacitor I got on-line. Needless to say, I gave the owner of the company a rash of sh&t, and told him I'd let all the other GC's I knew hear about it. Apologies at length, yada, yada, yada, and "I fired that guy a couple days ago for the exact same complaint," and an apology email.

So, I'm designing an ADU for our property, and I need some Heating/AC info. Figured I'd give the guy another chance, and he sent out another tech. I wanted to use a couple mini-split H/AC units, which run 110V, and easily setup, and had already looked at some options. Their "expert" said he could give me a good GC deal, per his boss, which turned out to be over $5K higher than retail for just the units, no electrical work. Sure...
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Re: Ford Hybrid Battery Rip-off (long story)

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Had the SAME experience with home HVAC. I even told the dispatcher I knew what the problem was, and if they could just send someone with an inducer fan I'd be sorted. "No, we can't do anything without an inspection first." Fine. Dude came out, told me it was the inducer fan, but there was no way he could order one for reasons, and even if he could, it would be $1000+ so we were better off just replacing the whole thing.

Now, admittedly, the unit was old and was getting to replacement time, but not "right now in December." I told him to pack up.

That night I found one in Colorado, under $50 plus +$50 in next day shipping. I installed it at like 10pm by flashlight and it was fine for three more years until we finally replaced the whole thing last summer.

This crap annoys me to death. I get the money value of time and all that, but telling people they gotta spend 10x or 100x because you aren't actually good at your job is criminal. My heart hurts for people who are barely scraping by getting fiscally raped by these no talent ass clowns. I'd love to have more time for drinking margaritas, but I sure as $#!* am not gonna cough up my paycheck to outsource things when those economies are in play. I have Motorcraft parts to buy ffs!
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Re: Ford Hybrid Battery Rip-off (long story)

Post by john keefe »

I get incompetency or ignorance... at least that can be usually cured with education and pride of work. It's the outright greedy, unscrupulous crap that gets me going. Unfortunately, its something I see too often being a GC, and opening up walls or figuring out why something's wrong, and wondering who the hell from the City signed off on this stuff.

I had a very good carpenter work with me on one 1880 Tudor restoration. Years before, he worked for one of the major concrete/foundation companies which poured all the foundations, slabs and driveways when Foster City was being developed. They'd rebar the entire garage and driveway, have it all tied together and dobied, the concrete truck on site, and pass inspection. As soon as the inspector left, a bunch of them would pick up the entire rebar mesh up and move it over to the next house while the trucks pulled up to pour the first slab. And they wonder why most of Foster City's driveways are cracked and falling apart.

Don't know if you remember the helicopter pics of Hwy 980 after the 1989 Quake, where sections collapsed onto each other. The concrete pillars holding up the second level literally exploded outward, with rebar splayed out all over. After a couple times seeing it and wondering what doesn't look right, and why that stretch of 980 collapsed, you realize that there were no concentric rebar rings wrapping around the vertical bars to prevent them from splaying under exactly those conditions. That's like Civil Engineering 101. Then you start to think about the corruption, payoff's, and intentional omission of those wraps just so CalTrans and others could save a thou or so in time and labor on each one. Of course, while they showed the fires and Bay Bridge for a couple days, those shots of 980 were taken off the air really quickly. Now, that's some powerful, greedy influence...
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Re: Ford Hybrid Battery Rip-off (long story)

Post by andyofcolumbusmerkur »

Horrible. They just wanted to sell her a brand new car.
The best way to keep your Kia from being stolen is to not have a Kia.
john keefe
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Re: Ford Hybrid Battery Rip-off (long story)

Post by john keefe »

andyofcolumbusmerkur wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:00 am Horrible. They just wanted to sell her a brand new car.
You got it. The shop manager and service writer weren't thrilled that I was taking it back, until I BS'd and told them my nephew was probably going to buy it, 'cause he thinks he can rebuild the battery himself, and then Mom will be looking for something to replace it. You could just see the happy $$$ light up on their faces
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Re: Ford Hybrid Battery Rip-off (long story)

Post by my8950 »

john keefe wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:39 pm
andyofcolumbusmerkur wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:00 am Horrible. They just wanted to sell her a brand new car.
You got it. The shop manager and service writer weren't thrilled that I was taking it back, until I BS'd and told them my nephew was probably going to buy it, 'cause he thinks he can rebuild the battery himself, and then Mom will be looking for something to replace it. You could just see the happy $$$ light up on their faces
I'm not sure I would have done that, I think I would call them out on it and let them know she is buying a GM, or something else.
Now that you got it figured out though, you should take it back up there and let the guy know it just needed a charge and has been running great since.

I don't trust dealerships, or anywhere else for this situation. The issue is, most newer cars have so many controls and control modules, its going to be really tough to maintain anything newer than 2015 or so. I'm still driving my 08 Fusion that I bought new, no payment and can't justify the cost of a new car, but it's rusting out due to Michigan winters. I'm scared to have to get something new.
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Re: Ford Hybrid Battery Rip-off (long story)

Post by john keefe »

I would have been a LOT harsher, and contacted BAR, etc., etc. except my Mom was really concerned about how they'd react, and what that might incur for future services. Remember, they're the only game in a small town... Since I'm not there all the time with her, and I usually find out post-facto about stuff like that from her, I can picture them overcharging on a lot of things to get even and she wouldn't know. If they don't care about pulling crap like this on a 92 year old loyal customer, I doubt they'd be intimidated by anything I can say. And, filing a complaint with the BAR would be like the nuclear option, and it can't be made anonymously, though I'm still tempted.
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Re: Ford Hybrid Battery Rip-off (long story)

Post by Ed Lijewski »

John:

Just post to Mom's local Listserve "How to charge the Escape hybrid battery if it discharged completely". Leave it at that.

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Re: Ford Hybrid Battery Rip-off (long story)

Post by john keefe »

There you go, thanks Ed. Proof again that wisdom is often expressed in the fewest of words.
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Re: Ford Hybrid Battery Rip-off (long story)

Post by Bob Weir »

Suggestions with a little humor...

Assuming your mom lives near you [not too much snow near San Fran], Does she really need a 4wd SUV? Hybrid?

My suggestion is based on my 100 yr old mother, my father's 88 Linclon Town Car with plush velour seats, my daughter's 89 Merkur Scorpio with the softest leather seats, and my experience selling mid 70's Cadillacs and early 80's Porsche Audis and owning Merkurs. Both dealerships were "old" school with impeccable customer service. My mother would day dream in the Town Car while constantly talking with my daughter in the Scorpio. She loved them both, but for different reasons. My mother & father had a gas station until 1965 - from washing cars to cookin the books, she did it all.

Depending what your mom would prefer to drive, buy her something - Town Car or Scorpio. You get the idea - something old school - easy & cheep to fix - but something she always wanted! Rehab it - suspension bushings to sunroof drains. eBay or Craigslist the 2008 Escape Hybrid. Give her the +$ difference for a vacation or take her shopping. Tag along with her while she visits the not-so reputable Ford dealership. Take a few pictures while she expresses her opinions to the dealership's general manager!

Please tell us her story.

Bob
PS My mom passed Nov 2019 @ 100 yrs & 10 days - Stories & counsel from a mother make life worth living...
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Re: Ford Hybrid Battery Rip-off (long story)

Post by john keefe »

Great perspective! Sorry about your Mom. 11/19 is like only yesterday when its a parent or sibling.

Both sides of my family live long too. Me? I'm trying my best to break the curse with not so clean livin'. My Grandma lasted until 109 (her parents almost as long). Man, if only somebody had written down her stories about growing up just after the Civil War, Dust Bowl, Depression, both World Wars, etc..

You have a pretty good idea there... My Mom's had two hip replacements, just dislocated one of them, and she has to have a tall vehicle to get into (no deep hip flexions). The Escape is about right size; its only 2WD, and a lot more tolerable/practical for her than the artsy fartsy crowd in her town who all drive Prius' and Teslas, or the requisite Outback/Legacy if you bat for the other team. Not a few times have "friends" told her (cue snooty SF voice), "Well at least its a Hybrid."

I'm thinking an '80s Bronco, with state of the art conveniences would be perfect. Good height, plenty of exhaust to piss everybody off. She needs space for the dog, and all her sculptures and easels to throw in the back. Lift kit with huge knobbies would be pushing it. I'd have to relocate the spare from the back to the tailgate to underneath. Price is going up on those Broncos, though. Still, she wouldn't have to worry about parking lot dings, or morons not seeing her while driving, and she'd come out best in most any fender bender. 9-12 mpg might be a deal breaker. OTOH, she'd probably get a kick out of pulling up to an art gallery, with exhaust note, a cowboy hat and cane. And, I could work on it. :D
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Re: Ford Hybrid Battery Rip-off (long story)

Post by Ed Lijewski »

Plus she could replace the name scripts with FILLY in place of BRONCO.

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Re: Ford Hybrid Battery Rip-off (long story)

Post by Bob Weir »

John
Luv “artsy fartsy”
2 hips rebuilt & still haulin art supplies... Go girl!
She’s gonna luv the modified “Filly” (per Ed)
Have fun truck shopping & doin mods.
Get her some big band & swing for her stereo
Stay healthy
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