https://youtu.be/LiuETM7L9DM
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If the Cologne V6 Could Sound Like This:
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Ed Lijewski
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If the Cologne V6 Could Sound Like This:
Descartes: "Cogito Ergo Sum"
Lijewski: "Sum Ergo Drive-O. Mucho!
Lijewski: "Sum Ergo Drive-O. Mucho!
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john keefe
- Level 7
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- Location: Campbell, CA
Re: If the Cologne V6 Could Sound Like This:
If only... 24V, BMW-like balance. I don't know, though. Guess I'm exposed to too many "tuned" 4 and V6 belching fart cans around here. I realize on paper its a good distribution of firing every 120 deg. (3 per crank rev, 6 per 2 revs), but that lag between firings gives them all a staccato rasp at higher rpm's that's, IMHO not pleasant. Doesn't make you look up to see a good V8 cranking it up (esp. the newer Mustangs w/ flat cranks, Camaros and Vettes), just kinda' annoying. Again, I'm probably biased living out here. OTOH, there used to be a YouTube clip of somebody cranking up a Scorpio with the 24V Cosworth on a tarmac, and that was impressive, and smooth. I could live with that.
Re: If the Cologne V6 Could Sound Like This:
Hi all,
The 24v 2.5l V-6 in a Mercury Mystique/Ford Contour or the 3.0l 24v V-6 in Taurus or Sables from '98/'99 could be a good fit and would sound good with a free flowing exhaust system. I saw a used Mystique with 129k mileage advertised last week with the 24v in it for small money but it was sold when I enquired. Any of us in here with a version of that engine will be aware of its smoothness, free revving nature and overall driveablity. I guess it could sound very good with a tuned exhaust system. It would cost small money in a u-pull lot as well.
Cheers
The 24v 2.5l V-6 in a Mercury Mystique/Ford Contour or the 3.0l 24v V-6 in Taurus or Sables from '98/'99 could be a good fit and would sound good with a free flowing exhaust system. I saw a used Mystique with 129k mileage advertised last week with the 24v in it for small money but it was sold when I enquired. Any of us in here with a version of that engine will be aware of its smoothness, free revving nature and overall driveablity. I guess it could sound very good with a tuned exhaust system. It would cost small money in a u-pull lot as well.
Cheers
1986 XR4Ti Mineral Blue Metallic
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john keefe
- Level 7
- Posts: 1069
- Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:13 pm
- Location: Campbell, CA
Re: If the Cologne V6 Could Sound Like This:
The problem (in CA) with a retrofit/upgrade is that the donor and recipient cars must have the same drivetrain configuration, and the overall gearing has to be the same, or pretty darn close. So, those transverse engines can't be used in a Merkur swap, unless you can find some application where they were in-line. That's why I always liked the idea of the Duratec 24V-V6 and transmissions from a Lincoln LS. Plus, they're a nice sounding/revving V6, not ratty.
Re: If the Cologne V6 Could Sound Like This:
Hi all,
3.0 liter 24v, same engine...
Cheers
3.0 liter 24v, same engine...
Cheers
1986 XR4Ti Mineral Blue Metallic
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john keefe
- Level 7
- Posts: 1069
- Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:13 pm
- Location: Campbell, CA
Re: If the Cologne V6 Could Sound Like This:
Close, but not exactly the same engine, nor same swap-eligibility... The '98 Taurus 24V was rated at 200HP/200TQ, the later Lincoln LS at 215HP/205TQ.
Before deciding on the 5.0L, I had intended to swap in an SHO Yamaha V6 (miss that SHO!) which I could have bought for cheap from a buddy, but CARB told me it had to be from the exact same configuration, and not out of a truck. So, at least back then, you couldn't put a transverse-mounted (FWD) engine into a longitudinal configuration. So, the Taurus/Sable donor wasn't an option, and the Lincoln LS was too new back then to expect to find an affordable used/salvaged engine. The explanation was that you could never get the same weight, nor same gearing, thus not the same smog results. They didn't buy my hypothesis that putting that combo in a lighter car with the proper gearing would actually improve gas mileage.
When I had the car tested, the first thing the smog ref checked was the serial numbers on the block et al to make sure it came out of a 90's Mustang, and not an Explorer or truck, and of course that it had all the smog equipment that exact year model carried. I assume that still holds true, for the same reasons. Which is why if I was going to do it again, I'd source out of a Lincoln LS, not Taurus, Sable, or other FWD layout.
Before deciding on the 5.0L, I had intended to swap in an SHO Yamaha V6 (miss that SHO!) which I could have bought for cheap from a buddy, but CARB told me it had to be from the exact same configuration, and not out of a truck. So, at least back then, you couldn't put a transverse-mounted (FWD) engine into a longitudinal configuration. So, the Taurus/Sable donor wasn't an option, and the Lincoln LS was too new back then to expect to find an affordable used/salvaged engine. The explanation was that you could never get the same weight, nor same gearing, thus not the same smog results. They didn't buy my hypothesis that putting that combo in a lighter car with the proper gearing would actually improve gas mileage.
When I had the car tested, the first thing the smog ref checked was the serial numbers on the block et al to make sure it came out of a 90's Mustang, and not an Explorer or truck, and of course that it had all the smog equipment that exact year model carried. I assume that still holds true, for the same reasons. Which is why if I was going to do it again, I'd source out of a Lincoln LS, not Taurus, Sable, or other FWD layout.
Re: If the Cologne V6 Could Sound Like This:
Hi all,
A guy at a Lincoln dealer explained to me at the time of release for them that the 3.0 liter 24v engine for the LS has the heads ported and polished to increase output. Mazda did the same I believe. The LS motor that was really different was the 3.9 liter V-8 which was Jaguar sourced apparently. That engine seems to be either hard to get parts for or so expensive no one fixes it as I have seen many good looking V-8 LS cars sitting and rotting for years prior to being scrapped. I wish the seats would fit a Taurus but they won't. I wonder if they have the alternator moved up from the bottom on that version of V-6? It is a pain to change on a Taurus.
I would expect the LS transmission to mate to the Taurus 24v with no issue with the correct bell housing for the V-6.
On a side note, I saw a Mazda Miller cycle engine in a Millenia at a u-pull yard here a month ago. I was surprised to see the car and the motor. The motor was complete at the time I saw it and very rare to see. Mazda tried and failed with an upscale car division in Japan called AMATI and that was one of the cars in the lineup over there. I looked at it when new while living in Japan and read all the info about the Miller cycle engine at that time
Cheers
A guy at a Lincoln dealer explained to me at the time of release for them that the 3.0 liter 24v engine for the LS has the heads ported and polished to increase output. Mazda did the same I believe. The LS motor that was really different was the 3.9 liter V-8 which was Jaguar sourced apparently. That engine seems to be either hard to get parts for or so expensive no one fixes it as I have seen many good looking V-8 LS cars sitting and rotting for years prior to being scrapped. I wish the seats would fit a Taurus but they won't. I wonder if they have the alternator moved up from the bottom on that version of V-6? It is a pain to change on a Taurus.
I would expect the LS transmission to mate to the Taurus 24v with no issue with the correct bell housing for the V-6.
On a side note, I saw a Mazda Miller cycle engine in a Millenia at a u-pull yard here a month ago. I was surprised to see the car and the motor. The motor was complete at the time I saw it and very rare to see. Mazda tried and failed with an upscale car division in Japan called AMATI and that was one of the cars in the lineup over there. I looked at it when new while living in Japan and read all the info about the Miller cycle engine at that time
Cheers
1986 XR4Ti Mineral Blue Metallic
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john keefe
- Level 7
- Posts: 1069
- Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:13 pm
- Location: Campbell, CA
Re: If the Cologne V6 Could Sound Like This:
Was that 3.9L V8 the engine that went into temporarily revived SHO a few years ago? Rarely see one of those these days, maybe 2 or 3 on the road in all that time since. Sat in one and it was very nice, but with a too long & high center-console between the front seats which was cozy, but made it seem a lot more cramped than the car width suggested.
Re: If the Cologne V6 Could Sound Like This:
Hi all,
No, that was a Yamaha motor, not a Jaguar sourced one.
I was traveling in Canada around 2007 for business and had a conversation with a Ford mechanic trained to work on SHO cars. The V-8 engine could turn 12,000 rpm, he claimed, but the pulleys on the motor would all fail about 8,000 rpm or so. That motor had SWAGED on rocker arms that were notorious for working loose, typically after the warranty expired. Ford did not warranty that problem and the fix was to weld the rocker arm to the tube that they were swaged onto to keep them from being loose. If you see one for sale ask if the rocker arms have been welded.
I believe those are interference engines. I saw one new in a crate for $4,000 about ten years ago. It would be a great motor until it broke, I guess.
Cheers
No, that was a Yamaha motor, not a Jaguar sourced one.
I was traveling in Canada around 2007 for business and had a conversation with a Ford mechanic trained to work on SHO cars. The V-8 engine could turn 12,000 rpm, he claimed, but the pulleys on the motor would all fail about 8,000 rpm or so. That motor had SWAGED on rocker arms that were notorious for working loose, typically after the warranty expired. Ford did not warranty that problem and the fix was to weld the rocker arm to the tube that they were swaged onto to keep them from being loose. If you see one for sale ask if the rocker arms have been welded.
I believe those are interference engines. I saw one new in a crate for $4,000 about ten years ago. It would be a great motor until it broke, I guess.
Cheers
1986 XR4Ti Mineral Blue Metallic
Re: If the Cologne V6 Could Sound Like This:
I believe the issue with the V-8 SHO engines was the cam sprockets, not the rocker arms. Regardless, the pre-emptive fix was welding, as stated.
Mark